Tegu diarrhea

[Neuro]

This time is minos the one who is ill, this started after we feed them with a piece of turkey that didn't smell too good, it was in the fridge so we thought that it smelled like that because of the fridge, after that both lose their appetite (we own 2 colombians) and minos started with this contractions while pooping, so we take both to the vet, he made some fecal exams and the result was an egg of coccidia, and he told me that this was the cause of his illness, he gave minos a shot with enrofloxacin and another medicine for the colics because he started with this horrible diarrhea, to the point of sprouting his intestinal mucose out of his cloaca for some minutes.

He also gave us this medicine for coccidia treatment, metronidazole, with the indications of 3 doses for 3 days, and told us to give minos pediatric oral serum to keep him hydrated. We just arrived from the vet and the diarrhea stoped, now hes sleeping and i have to give him serum in a couple of minutes again.

Have you seen this before? what gave the vet to your tegu? any vets around here? i would like to hear a second opinion from someone who know tegus, or if you have any suggestion for my poor minos. i saw something in the net for coccidia treatment called Sulfadimethroxine, do you know it? Thanks in advance for your replys :cry:

[Nero557]

Sorry that I can't be of help, but I wish the best to your tegu/s. Good luck and I hope they get better.

[Neuro]

Thank you for your good wishes, he passed the night without problems, im taking him to the vet today again soon.

[Neuro]

Anybody?

[Nero557]

Okay, I don't know why anyone else hasn't helped you yet, but I will ask a few people I know personally and I will get back to you, but I noticed that my tegus have more "solid" feces when they eat mice/rats, so maybe try feeding your tegu some of those for a little while just until he gets rid of it. It won't hurt him or be bad for him, so I'd give it a shot. I'll get back to you shortly (probably tomorrow or so)

[Rick]

The reason I did not respond is because I didn't see the first post. The next post was..


Thank you for your good wishes, he passed the night without problems, im taking him to the vet today again soon.

I was waiting for a follow up. What did the vet say? Does he still have the runs? I personally have no answers for you because I have never had the issue.

I would never feed my tegus food that smelled funny to me. If it has any odd odor it gets tossed out.

I would look into the diet you feed them, the supplements you use, the temps they are kept at, the basics. Try to explain everything you can and it may give us further ideas.

Rick

[Teiidae]

I too have read this post and was waiting for a follow-up from the 2nd vet visit, however after re-reading this topic - I'm not sure I understand what your question is :?:

The Tegu had the ****s, you took him to the vet and the vet diagnosed Coccidia, a parasite of the intestines - A common sympton of Coccidia is the ****s.

How did he get them ? - Well again from "****" - Passed through fecal matter than ingested - Possibly from feeding an infected mouse who has ingested the Coccidia.

And if you are housing the 2 Tegu's together, chances are good that the other may become infected.

I would follow the vets reccomendations, seperate the Tegu's, and get them out of the quite possibly now "Infected substrate" he's been ****ting on.

Bad smelling food = Rotting food - Although they are most likey not eating the freshest of foods in the wild, and their stomachs can most likely handle some decaying matter, I think it's a bad idea to knowingly feed it.

Neuro I know it has been some time since we have last chatted about the diets of our Colombians, however I do recall us both having the same problem with the "Addiction to eggs" - Even having to dip mice in the raw egg to get them to feed - Feeding eggs can cause runny stool - It did for my Black, So if you are still feeding alot of egg, while the Tegu is infected with Coccidia, I would still expect runny fecal matter...

Good luck my friend :wink:

[Neuro]

Thanks for your replys :), the thing is that minos has this diarrhea because of the coccidia, the diet of them is now ground turkey semi rare, i cook it a little to avoid this problems :roll: . with rep-cal and herpivite, no eggs, and if i feed eggs i cook them too.

Its a reinfection of coccidia i think, like 4 months ago i tried to feed them something with vitamin C and gave them brocoli, i disinfected it, but it wasn't clean enough, then, after 2 days more or less i got this stools with a drip of blood, went to the vet and it was coccidia, we gave them a treatment and it stoped, but now its back.

Also i know that parasites are not a problem too often with reptiles, but minos if you can recall, had this episode of veterinary negligence some time ago, so the antibiotics weakened his guts i think, so now my next step after their recovery is keep them in a new terrarium, ultra clean.

My question was if someone has seen this illness before, and how did your animals respond to the treatment, the metronidazole, and now we are giving him this medicine for the colics, bonadoxin, that its working well, he seems fine, his gums are pink, eyes bright, weight its a lil low for him because of his diarrhea, and yesterday ate a lil piece of "all cooked" turkey, his gut infection has diminised but he still has some pain when he poop, the vet says its ok because we only have given him 2 days of metronidazole, 3 now, and if any of you know if we can treat them with this metronidazole, or another medicine for a long period until they are coccidia free, i saw that its a very resistent thing.

Thats it, thanks for your replys again.

[Nero557]

Okay, I thank you rick and teiidae for helping out because like I said I didn't know what to tell him. I also went to another friend of mine and basically repeated your first post to him, this is what he said...
"Coccidia is a fairly common protozoal infection, and can occur in CB or WC collections. Transmission is often by ingestion of contaminated prey animals (insects, mice, whatever). Before anyone blames their suppliers, keep in mind that feeders (even f/t or cooked meat) can be infected by contacting feces or a poorly cleaned bowl. Now, the drugs you mentioned: metronidazole, enrofloxacin, and the mystery anti-colic. Metronidazole (Flagyl) is a common antiprotozoic agent...but I don't know that it is particularly effective against Coccidiosis. I have never treated it personally, but I believe that Sulfadimethoxine (Albon) is the most common treatment. Enrofloxacin (Baytril) is an antibiotic, and I am uncertain as to what benefit it might be in this instance. The anti-colic medication makes sense, since the Coccidia likely caused some spasming (esp since the Flagyl and Baytril can both cause diarrhea, as a side effect). If it is, in fact coccidiosis, my thought would be that he should treat both tegus if they are housed together. If they are separate, there are two schools of thought: 1) leave well enough alone, and 2) treat them to be sure. Ok, I was wrong. There is a third - get the other one tested and make the decision based upon the results.My intent was not to contradict what the vet prescribed - after all, I certainly don't have DVM after my name...nor do I have access to the same literature."

[Nero557]

I got one more answer from another person, who is a member on here... but they didn't post on here... but it's cool because I have something else to add... "Coccida are endoparasites. They are peculiar little beasts that live in the lining of the stomach. They can occur in just about any type of reptile, and even in amphibians as well. They are transmissible to other reptiles/amphibians. Harald is right about getting both animals treated. I have used Corid for these as well as metronidazole or better known as Flagyl (Flagenase). Also treatments of Tribrissen. The animals affected by these parasites usually show signs of rapid weight loss, and bloody tinged stools that are loose. I would also say I am not a vet, and it would be best to let him diagnosis treatment for these parasites."

[Neuro]

Thank you very much for the info that you have gathered man, Minos is showing better, he pooped today again but this time with consistency, we take him out of his cage and let him walk a bit, he rested in the UVB and heat lamps some minutes and after that pooped, green :? , but ive seen that they poop like that if they dont get sun, and this is the case since the begining of his diarrhea, the good news is that that he pooped almost without pain, just some gas.

This is a good sign that the medicine its working for him, the vet said that we'll give them metranidazole for 2 more days and check after that, he has recovered part of his apetite, but we still keep giving him serum.

Ill post any news about their condition, thank you again for your research Nero.

And Rick, im sorry i just saw your post :oops: , their diet is semi rare ground turkey (now we are cooking it) with rep-cal with D3 vitamin and herptivite, the temps are 25-26C ambient and +33C in the basking spot, they also have heating mats to get warmer without the UVB lights, we feed every other day and they get fresh water every day.

I think the reason wasnt this fridge odored meat, i think its maybe a resistent coccidia from their infection 4-5 months ago, so ill talk with their vet to see how to avoid this from happening again, also im thinking about something that a person said in the irc channel the other day, some kind of probiotic acidopholis to restore his intestinal flora after the treatment, the vet told me to gave him yakult :roll: but beign reptiles i doubt that they can process lactose.

It seems like a good idea because they both are infected, but minos got the worst part and i think its because his weakened after the story of negligence that he lived some time ago, so any toughs about this?

[varnyard]

Nero557, Art, I will never care if you copy and paste helpful info from anything I post. I am more than glad to help others with problems with their reptiles. :wink: As long as it is not a substitute for a vet. :)

[Nero557]

All right, I just need to clear a few things up. I don't know if anyone took a few things I said in the wrong way, but I just don't want to make any enemies because that was not my intention. Bobby, Rick, Teiidae, I wasn't trying to say anything by posting with "I don't know why anyone else hasn't helped you yet" it was just an innocent observation, you guys are all great and have been very helpful to me and many others on this site, and some of you even off of this site. Also, I would never recommend any substitution for a vet, and the only reason I copy and pasted was just because Neuro asked a few questions didn't get a response, and I felt bad because I personally couldn't help him out. So I just went around and asked a few more people. I thank you all for posting and helping out and I'm sorry if the way I typed anything sounded/seemed like I had an attitude or was "bashing" anyone on the site, or the site itself. That was not my intention. Sorry for the confusion, if there even was any and thank you guys for helping. :oops:

[varnyard]

No Art, you got me wrong. I was saying it was just fine, by all means to use my words/posts. I like to help people, and don't mind in the least.
Don't worry about making hard feelings with me about this. I think you read it wrong somewhere. All I was saying is that I am not a vet, and that it would be best to let a vet diagnosis treatment for animals. I just did not want someone to go and get medication without a vet diagnosing a problem first. Then later saying Varnyard said to do this. I do treat some of my animals myself, I have been a keeper for many years. But please understand, if I have any doubts at all about what the problem might be, I go to the vet as well. Please do not worry about what I said, or take it the wrong way. I am glad you are here trying to help!! :wink:

[Nero557]

Got it, and I agree 100% with having a vet diagnose the problem first. :D

[Neuro]

Update in their conditions, minos just ate as always and drank a LOT of water yesterday, he still has some gas but the diarrhea stopped, i dunno if this gas its because of the way we gave him medicines (stringed to his mouth), he just do his stuff one time per day, we stopped the metronidazole after 5 doses and we are about to take a poop sample to the vet (from ada's).

Dunno what he will say, i will sugest to gave him a support treatment to eliminate the coccidia at all because its a recurrent parasite (for the ones that don't know he got infected about 4 months ago because we feed him some veggies that we think were disinfected, but they wasn't).

Im still waiting for minos to poop today to take a sample but i doubt that he poop today, we feed him yesterday but hes still recovering, so i don't think that he can digest the food that fast.

Ill post the results of the fecal exam later.

[varnyard]

Great to hear they are getting better. Keep us posted. :)

[Nero557]

I agree with Bobby, it's great to hear. :P

[jb]

That's weird....#1 b/c Tegu's aren't very prone to coccidia infections and #2 b/c coccidiosis is usually treated with Albon, not metronidazole-the latter is for protozoan infections (amoebas, flagellates)...but if it's working along with meticulous cage cleanings..go for it! great to hear he's coming around.

[Neuro]

Coccidia again in the tests, but they seem better because Minos recovered his apetite as i said, and now hes drinking water by himself, he stills does has this belchs while pooping, but the vet said that its normal because of the damage of the parasites caused to the gut.

Now im thinking, i know tht they are very prone to coccidiossis, so the cause maybe that his gut is weakened because of previous antibiotic treatments, i made some research about this lactobasillus acidopholis, it has mention in the melissa kaplan site, but i didnt find any doses, i mean the X/kg ratio.

I told my vet about this and hes doing his research too, any one knows what would be the ratio with lizards of this acidopholis thing?

[jb]

you will have + fecals for coccidia for a long time. it is very difficult to fully eradicate. as long as their counts are lowering, he's on the right track. still think you should ask about Albon if it is truly coccidiosis.

[Neuro]

Update, the latest test showed no coccidia eggs, we stoped the treatment 2 days after that and we will gave them acidophilus today at night.

Minos is way better than a week ago, he still poops very slowly but doing it fine, he recovered his apetite and his strenght, he still has some gas but nothing to worry.

We'll make him tests 2 days from now to see if there are no more eggs after the treatment, ill keep this updated, thanks for all your support.

[Nero557]

Good to hear he's doing better. Just keep at it, don't give up hope, he'll pull through and it will all be over soon. Keep us posted. -Art- :)