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varnyard
10-09-2006, 02:22 PM
Breeding tegus

Argentine tegus breed soon after they come out from hibernation. About three weeks to a month after they emerge from hibernation. The males begin to actively pursue the females. Copulation takes place for one to two weeks. The female will start to build a nest seven to ten days after this takes place. I have found that fine hay and leaves work great for nesting. Females will build a nest that is about three feet in diameter and two to three feet high. They like to build these nests under things. I use a piece of plywood leaned against the side of the enclosure. All other tegus must be removed when the female starts building the nest. Females become very aggressive at this time. They will attack anything that they perceives as a threat to their nest and eggs. They will also get aggressive with their keepers. Argentine tegus and the Blues are the only lizards in the world known to build a nest. The female builds a two part nest chamber. The bottom chamber is for the eggs, the top is a guarding chamber. Females tend to hold this aggression well after the eggs and nest are removed. I would not suggest putting her with any other tegus until time for hibernation begins again. They have been known to attack and kill other tegus. In my studies, they keep this guarding mode regardless of where they are. I have tried to put them in a separate enclosure for up to a month after laying. When I add another tegu they attack it on sight. They are best kept alone during this period. Bert Langerwerf has seen these same actions with his animals. He too has stated it is better to house them separate until time for hibernation to begin. Argentine Black and White tegus begin breeding here in Florida around mid March until mid April.

The ratio of more males than females insure a fertile clutch. If one male is used with one female the clutch tends to have a 50% fertility rate. It is best to have two males to one female, or three males to two females, or seven males to five females, this will greatly increase the fertility in the eggs. Males are very impressive animals, the look like they would be very aggressive towards each other. I have found that males get along quite well, even during the peak of the breeding season. It is strongly recommended that Argentine tegus hibernate if the are intended to breed. Bert Langerwerf claims that if these tegus miss a hibernation, they will be infertile and unable to produce viable young. The eggs are carried in the females system into hibernation. When she emerges, the male copulates and fertilizes the eggs, she lays her clutch and then starts to grow eggs in her body for the following year. Bert claims that they are useless for breeding if they miss one of these cycles of hibernation. Colombian tegus are not bred in the United States to any great extent that I know of. They are often times imported. They also do not require hibernation. I would tend to believe they would be more like the Ameivas and whiptails then the Argentine Reds, Argentine Black and Whites, or the Blue tegus. Gestation and removing the eggs.

The female will lay her eggs within days after completion of the nest. This period is about three to seven days after the nest is made. The female has been seen drinking vast quantities of water in dry conditions. It is believed that the female regurgitates water on the nest when it becomes to dry. Nests have been found to be more moist than the surrounding soil. Females can have between ten and seventy three eggs in one clutch. Bert Langerwerf recorded a single female lay seventy three eggs. The average clutch is around thirty eggs.

The female will be seen as quite thin after laying her clutch. At this time the eggs will need to be removed for incubation. Be sure not to rotate the eggs when removing them from the nest. It is also best to have the incubator already set up and the temperature and the humidity right. It is best to set up the incubator when you notice the female building the nest.

blair0228
10-10-2006, 12:28 AM
I have a question. I have heard on the forums that Blues dont really hibernate in the wild. And I dont know for a fact that this is true or not, but I saw a post on here saying that. So do Blues need to hibernate every year to produce offspring? Or can they wait a couple years to gain size and then hibernate them a year or two prior?

tupinambis
10-12-2006, 11:00 PM
All other tegus must be removed when the female starts building the nest. Females become very aggressive at this time. They will attack anything that they perceives as a threat to their nest and eggs.
We leave our tegus together during this time, and we rarely have any problems with the females attacking anything else. However, I will say Varnyard's warning does have value in that although we don't tend to see females attacking the others, we DO often see the males eating the eggs.


The female has been seen drinking vast quantities of water in dry conditions. It is believed that the female regurgitates water on the nest when it becomes to dry. Nests have been found to be more moist than the surrounding soil.
Actually, it's the other end of the tegu the fluid comes from. A lot of reptiles urinate on their nests, particularly tortoises. Sometimes it's to soften the soil for easier digging, other times it's to provide moisture for the developing eggs.


Be sure not to rotate the eggs when removing them from the nest.
It is best to be careful with the eggs, but tegu eggs can be rotated safely without damaging the developing embryo. We usually wash our tegu eggs after collecting them to minimize fungal contamination, a process that involves rolling them around and such, and it doesn't affect the viability of the eggs. It is in crocodilians and chelonians that the embryo adheres to the egg membrane and where rotating the egg damages them.


I have a question. I have heard on the forums that Blues dont really hibernate in the wild. And I dont know for a fact that this is true or not, but I saw a post on here saying that. So do Blues need to hibernate every year to produce offspring? Or can they wait a couple years to gain size and then hibernate them a year or two prior?
The problem with this is Blues are not recognized as their own species, scientifically. So any report of Blues doing anything in the wild is purely conjectured. Currently, most scientists aware of the existence of Blues and having compared them claim them to be nothing more than a morph of Tupinambis merianae, however many hobbyists disagree. Breeding them under the same regimen as T.merianae seems to work. Rick has shown that you can avoid hibernating tegus for a season and can reset their cycles to breed with hibernating in subsequent years.

Rick
10-13-2006, 02:54 AM
We leave our tegus together during this time, and we rarely have any problems with the females attacking anything else. However, I will say Varnyard's warning does have value in that although we don't tend to see females attacking the others, we DO often see the males eating the eggs.

I have observed my female tegus become aggressive toward both male and female tegus as well, normally once the eggs laying starts. So now I place the females in a "nesting box" by themselves until the eggs are laid. I'll also note that even as friendly as my tegus are, the females will even attempt to attack me if they have laid eggs. Merely removing the eggs will not calm them either. I need to rip the nest apart and leave them in the nest box for awhile to get over the fact they something took it's eggs.

In the wild, I would think this behavior would be intended to keep males from raiding their nest.

I have not stuck my hand into a nest prior to egg laying, (for obvious reasons) but I will agree that the nest does often smell of tegu urine.

Rick

varnyard
10-13-2006, 05:07 AM
I will also add to this. Bert has 60 separate enclosures for single bred females. He has also seen and knows that they will not only attack other tegus, but in fact try to kill them if they try to get anywhere near them or their nest. I have seen this as well.

I have had females and males both beaten up pretty bad from nesting females. I know what they can and will do.

Maybe I need Colin's females if they are not aggressive during nesting. But that is not the case with mine. It is like Rick stated, no matter how tame they are before breeding, they become very aggressive even towards me. I had one of my tame tegu females bite clean through a pair of rubber boots, I guess that would be proof enough for me.

If you intend to breed your females be prepared to have a separate enclosure set up. You will need it when you breed her.

tupinambis
10-13-2006, 07:13 AM
Varnyard, again you are reading stuff in my posts I didn't write. I never said they weren't aggressive. In fact, I would definitely say that out of the two sexes, females are pretty much the nastier sex. Ours will certainly go after us when we go into the pens to collect the eggs. We just haven't had any problems with them killing pen mates. The differences might be in the size of pens, access to more retreats, more natural behaviour (ours I will never claim are tame, they are not raised to be pets and have very little human interaction). Behaviour can be highly variable. You claim it's fine to house males together. Our experience is the opposite. We can hibernate them together, but come spring, if there are two males in the same pen, we usually wound up losing one, if not both. You have success putting multiple males together with a single female, we seem to have great success putting multiple females with one male. Personally, if it were up to me and I had the space, I'd have 1:1 ratios AND (believe it or not) follow your recommendations of splitting them up. But with a yearly production of around 1000 tegus, I can't say we're doing badly.

varnyard
10-13-2006, 12:21 PM
We leave our tegus together during this time, and we rarely have any problems with the females attacking anything else. However, I will say Varnyard's warning does have value in that although we don't tend to see females attacking the others, we DO often see the males eating the eggs.

I don't think I am reading stuff in your post you didn't write. I will also say that bert has this same problem and does use large enclosures. I might also add his tegus are not tame at all.

If you produce 1000 tegus, what do you do with them? I know one of the two largest breeders/exporters of the Argentines tegus down there. He is also one of two people that hold a permit to export tegus. Do you know Roberto Fracchia? I met him in Daytona, we talked for a good while.

varnyard
10-13-2006, 12:39 PM
Also, do you have any pictures of this breeding program and these numerus females nesting together?

I will also say, I guess Bert Langerwerf is wrong as well about keeping the ratio of more males than females. He is the one that taught me about breeding these awesome animals. I might also add his males are not tame, and like mine they do not fight. I will take his advice on this, he is the biggest breeder there is of this species anywhere in the world. He produced well over 3000 hatchlings this year.

varnyard
10-13-2006, 01:57 PM
Here is proof of my males being housed together. As you can see in the picture they are very healthy and happy together. This is the only picture I have of males together. They are hibernating now. But you can clearly see two adult male together in this photo.

Click on the picture to make it larger.

http://www.www.thetegu.com/modules/Gallery/albums/Varnyard-s-argentines/New_Tegus_R_S_1_6.thumb.jpg (http://www.thetegu.com/modules.php?set_albumName=Varnyard-s-argentines&id=New_Tegus_R_S_1_6&op=modload&name=Gallery&file=index&include=view_photo.php)

I will take more pictures of my males together after they come out of hibernation this coming spring.

tupinambis
10-13-2006, 05:31 PM
Varnyard, not that it really needs to be pointed out, but you are really acting the petulant little child.


I don't think I am reading stuff in your post you didn't write.
Yes, you are. Yes, I wrote they don't kill each other or attack each other. Is the only level of aggression that your mind can fathom is death? They are aggressive, they are very defensive, we just don't have problems with them killing each other. I didn't say it doesn't happen in your set-ups, I said it doesn't happen in ours and tegus can and do display different behaviours.


If you produce 1000 tegus, what do you do with them? I know one of the two largest breeders/exporters of the Argentines tegus down there. He is also one of two people that hold a permit to export tegus. Do you know Roberto Fracchia? I met him in Daytona, we talked for a good while.
You've heard a lot of hot air, and your opinion of the world is so narrow it's embarrassing. We don't supply the pet trade, we don't breed for money. In case you've overlooked the obvious and what has been stated over and over again, we are scientists, we breed these animals for responsible science so that we can supply the scientific need for them without depleting natural resources. Some of those animals also go back to the wild to replenish some populations because they've declined through habitat destruction, over harvesting, or simply exploited by unscrupulous collectors. We also breed caimans, turtles of various species, snakes, etc., etc., etc.


Also, do you have any pictures of this breeding program and these numerus females nesting together?

For someone who keeps claiming to know all and everything, your skill of perception would lead me to think you're myopic, but I just don't think so. Do yourself a favour, go look in my photo albums, they are posted on this very site which you moderate. In the tegu specific album is a picture of our breeding pens. That is maybe half of them. In the one pen in the foreground I can make out one male and two females to give you not only a scope of our pens but proof that we do infact house multiple females together. Next, look in my other album, aside from pictures of a few of my own personal animals, I also have a few pics of other set ups of our facility (again, I would say we have way more than the photos represent).
Now, if you have the means, I suggest you go to a university or college library and ask them to do a literature search using the keyword Tupinambis. I would easily claim that 95% of the papers published since 1990 in that list were supplied with tegus from our facility. If you read each of those papers, I'm fairly sure at the end you'd find an acknowledgements section wherein they'll mention the name Augusto Shinya Abe, a man who has contributed FAR more to the understanding of tegus than you, I or even your deitic Bert Langerwerf. However, YOU wouldn't know the man because you can't seem to accept that there is much more than the pet world out there that has to do with tegus. It is rather interesting, however, that if you could get your paws on the tegu book that Bert co-wrote with Gunther Kohler, that you'd see a whole lot of the photos and information presented in that book were given by none other than the reclusive Augusto Shinya Abe.


Here is proof of my males being housed together.
Again, Varnyard, what is your major malfunction?!?! I didn't say you don't house males together, I didn't say you can't house males together, and I certainly do not propose that tegus are little robots that all have the exact same programming and can be predicted to 100% accuracy in what they do behaviourally wise. I didn't say Bert was wrong either in the ratios he keeps, or you and Rick. I'm just saying we have done something differently and have different results than you do. In the first year of my hibernation study we housed males together to reduce the number of new pens we had to construct. Came spring it was a total disaster, the males tore the living hell out of each other. I wish I had held onto the video tapes, it would have been educational for you. The second year I housed 1:1 couples, they bred, the females laid eggs, and the females did not attack the males. They'd go after me like hell, but they didn't touch the males. They had reduced clutch size, but that was attributable to the telemetric implant, not to the presence of the males.

Daggit_Columbian
10-13-2006, 06:37 PM
wow Tupinambus, that's cool. i don't think i would have the heart to disect a tegu, LOL. anyways i had a few quick questions on the pronunciation of a few sciency words........


TeiidaeTupinambis merianae, rufescens,Teguixin
any other tegu related scientific name pronuciations would be great as there were more that i simply couldn't think of......

Thanks guys (in advance) hehehehe :D

varnyard
10-13-2006, 06:39 PM
Colin, you sure don't like being proven wrong do you?

I might add I have been to your album. There is no pictures in it of two or more nesting females. :roll:
http://www.thetegu.com/modules.php?set_albumName=Tupinambis-Research-Tegus&op=modload&name=Gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php&page=1

And you keep saying OUR breeding project. Who exactly is OUR?

You see mine is not a OUR, It is a mine. And I do know the facts about my tegus.

As for your rectally induced encephalic hypoxia, maybe a doctor could help you on that one. We could visit a proctologist for me, he might help you more than you could imagine also. We could also get a Brain Surgeon for your part He might even be able to remove your cranial by way of neurosurgery thus helping you with the concussion from the jarring injury you suffered in sticking your nose where ever it is now.This might be very important before craniosynostosis or a congenital brain disorder sets in from impact or lack or oxygen. :wink:

I would say that would be the major malfunction!! :)

Daggit_Columbian
10-13-2006, 06:45 PM
As for your rectally induced encephalic hypoxia, maybe a doctor could help you on that one. We could visit a proctologist for me, he might help you more than you could imagine also. We could also get a Brain Surgeon for your part He might even be able to remove your cranial by way of neurosurgery thus helping you with the concussion from the jarring injury you suffered in sticking your nose where ever it is now.This might be very important before craniosynostosis or a congenital brain disorder sets in from impact or lack or oxygen. :wink:

I would say that would be the major malfunction!! :)

you make my brain hurt with uncomprhension LOL :oops: 8O :D :D

varnyard
10-13-2006, 06:52 PM
Well I think we understand the jest of it. :wink:

Daggit_Columbian
10-13-2006, 07:08 PM
Also, does either of you know where i could obtain any info on gunter Kohler (i butchered the spelling srry) in ENGLISH?? taking german 1 just isn't enough..........lol

varnyard
10-13-2006, 07:11 PM
The only one I know of is written in German. Bert has these, but not in English. :roll:
http://www.agamainternational.com/pages/tegus.html

Daggit_Columbian
10-13-2006, 07:26 PM
uh, darn!? anyways i remembered the other word i couldn't pronounce, Varanid, varanus an dthose monitor related ones too.....i have a lot ot learn........... :cry: :wink:

tupinambis
10-13-2006, 07:34 PM
Colin, you sure don't like being proven wrong do you?

When have you proven me wrong? You rarely respond to any hard facts I have presented, instead you niggle at your own assumptions and typically resort to character assassination attempts as your means of justification. Any statements I have made I have backed up with evidence, either mathematical, visual, or reference. I don't go about spouting "my reputation, my reputation, my reputation!!!!". In science, people who demand their views are sufficient enough because of their reputation are seen as blowhards and braggarts. Views are asked to be backed up with evidence, such as either direct data or references of peer reviewed material. Such as this one:
Kruger, J., & D.Dunning, 1999. Unskilled and unaware of it: how difficulties in recognizing one's own incompetence lead to inflated self-assessments. Journal of Personality and Social Psychology 77(6):1121-1134.

It then allows the audience to check to see if what the author/speaker is claiming is indeed true. A very valuable resource for debating.


I might add I have been to your album. There is no pictures in it of two or more nesting females.
My lord, you have finally done it. You proved me wrong. I assumed you weren't myopic, and your statement now indicates that would likely be the case. My apologies. Look in the pen right in the foreground, Bobby. Towards the left corner there is a light male facing the camera, in the corner opposite the camera is a nearly all black female laying tangential to the camera direction, and just right of her, where her snout is pointing, is a coiled up female. C'mon, Varnyard, I would have expected "you probably just threw two females together, snapped your photo, and then separated them just to be difficult!". I present for the audience it's not me who can't stand to be "proven wrong". It's not me saying that the behaviour I see is what all tegus display, without variance.


And you keep saying OUR breeding project. Who exactly is OUR?

A) What does it matter? So you can then go assault them?
B) If you had been paying attention (forgive me for assuming so), I would have thought the main player was obvious - Augusto Shinya Abe. There are other scientists involved, Denis de Andrade and Celio Haddade(although Celio is primarily just an amphibian guy) who also run it. As well as lots of other students, and other scientists come down to do their work there because of the animals and facilities present.

I suggest that someone's moderator status be reviewed.

Now on to something more sane...

Daggit-Columbian, years ago I would have felt the same thing. However, with experience and training, I found I have a decent knack at dissection and surgery. It is gruesome, but I find one of the best ways to really understand and appreciate an organism and how it funtions is to see how they are put together.

As far as pronounciation of sciency words, it used to be quite simple and has kind of gotten difficult, I have to admit. Scientific classification was originally recognized as basically being bastardized Latin, and therefore Latin pronounciation was the rule (absence of certain long vowels, no soft 'c's, etc.). However, more and more it has evolved to include geocentric pronounciations and other languages' influence. You think these are hard, try bending your head around some of the dinosaurs coming out of China. Gives me a headache. But, with these, phonetically:

Teiidae - tay-ih-day
Tupinambis - too-pin-ahm-bis
merianae - mare-ee-ahn-aye
rufescens - roo-fes-kens
teguixin - tay-you-ee-sheen (this one's a little different as it's based from Brazilian Portuguese)

Daggit_Columbian
10-13-2006, 08:11 PM
[quote="tupinambis"]Now on to something more sane...quote]

Wahaaooo i was called sane, oh man, just wait till my psycologist hears about this!!!!!! :P LOL Thanks i will work on saying those correctly, wow i was saying them totally wrong.. :oops:

-j

BTW- These are the differences between two types of people, a breeder, and a scientist are two VERY different jobs :!: one involving a reputation and quality animal output(varnyard) and the other cold hrd facts and a certain preciseness (tupinambis) :)

varnyard
10-13-2006, 08:18 PM
A) What does it matter? So you can then go assault them?
B) If you had been paying attention (forgive me for assuming so), I would have thought the main player was obvious - Augusto Shinya Abe. There are other scientists involved, Denis de Andrade and Celio Haddade(although Celio is primarily just an amphibian guy) who also run it. As well as lots of students and other scientists come down to do their work there because of the animals and facilities present.


So the truth be told they are not YOUR TEGUS at all. You just went down for a little U.S. Government funded, via UBC Department of Zoology
look-see. :roll: Correct?

Being the big man on deck I figured I would see your name in lights on this one.

http://www.zoology.ubc.ca/~milsom/RecentWork.html
Seasonal changes in daily metabolic patterns of tegu lizards (Tupinambis merianae) placed in the cold (17ºC) and dark
William K. Milsom, Denis V. Andrade, Simone P. Brito, Luis F. Toledo, Tobias Wang and Augusto S. Abe

Guess I was wrong. :wink: I guess that is because you are a student or a MSc Candidate at the (UBC) Department of Zoology and not a actual scientist. Correct?

See, I am more than able to learn. :)
http://www.zoology.ubc.ca/~milsom/Sanders.html

I hate to burst your bubble Daggit_Columbian, but he is just a student rather than a scientist.

tupinambis
10-13-2006, 08:56 PM
So the truth be told they are not YOUR TEGUS at all. You just went down for a little U.S. Government funded, via UBC Department of Zoology
look-see. Correct?

Like I have said all along, if Varnyard doesn't get his way, he resorts to character assassination.

Truth? No, that isn't the truth. Some of the tegus are mine. Did I claim I owned the facility. Never. Did I claim I was the big man at the facility. No. Did I go down there for a little U.S. Government funded look-see. No. Your government had nothing to do with it, and the fact that you think so shows your biased view of the world. I wouldn't call living down there for about 2 years and doing research on tegus a "little look-see" either. It is far more than you've done, though.


Being the big man on deck I figured I would see your name in lights on this one.
That's because your limitations are so severe. I never claimed to be an author on all work done, nor do I claim to have a hand in all tegu work, or that I'm "the big man on deck". Any statement of such is proposterous, and someone thinking so only goes to show their woefully unenlightened status. There have been researchers before me who worked on tegus, there are going to be many researchers after me who are going to work on tegus. I did not do any of the work involved in that paper, big whoop. I do personally know everyone authored there, but it doesn't mean anything either. However, unlike you, I have at least read and understood that paper. But, if we take your example, that beings as my name isn't on that one paper, my status is void, lets look at the entire peer reviewed literature base on Tupinambis......hmmn, no Bobby Hill or Varnyard. I guess by your own criteria here that means you are a nobody? Not my criteria, but yours.


Guess I was wrong. I guess that is because you are a student or a MSc Candidate at the (UBC) Department of Zoology and not a actual scientist. Correct?

I do have a degree, and that's a lot more than you. I have never denied I'm a student. In fact, anyone that has ever asked me about such without being a self-important twit I have always told so. I do research, I publish that research and share it with other scientists for their perspectives and insights. I admit, I haven't published much, but I have still got a massive pile of data I'm working on. I get paid to do my research. I would call that being a scientist. And yes, I am a student. I hope to be so for the rest of my life. A student is someone who learns, and I plan on spending the rest of my existence doing so.


See, I am more than able to learn.
Your diatribes on here prove otherwise. The only thing you have learned was back on the elementary school playground. The rest of us have left those tactics back there where they belong and grew up. You didn't learn this information, you had someone point it out to you, and in your infinite wisdom the only thing you could think of doing with it is to try smearing someone else's reputation with it. Congratulations, you show great talent. Can't prove him wrong, so prove he shouldn't be believed because he's black/Jewish/a student/drives a Miata/eats goat cheese. I don't care about my reputation, that is unimportant to me. I'd rather people learn and do some critical thinking of their own. Like I've always said, I have the data to back up my claims and have put it forward for all to see.

Again, I STRONGLY suggest Varnyard's status as a moderator be reviewed.

varnyard
10-13-2006, 09:18 PM
So the truth be told they are not YOUR TEGUS at all. You just went down for a little U.S. Government
funded, via UBC Department of Zoology
look-see. Correct?

Like I have said all along, if Varnyard doesn't get his way, he resorts to character assassination.

Truth? No, that isn't the truth. Some of the tegus are mine. Did I claim I owned the facility. Never. Did I claim I was the big man at the facility. No. Did I go down there for a little U.S. Government funded look-see. No. Your government had nothing to do with it. I wouldn't call living down there for 2 years and doing research on tegus a "little look-see" either. It is far more than you've done, though.

That is not a proven fact though, is it?




Being the big man on deck I figured I would see your name in lights on this one.
That's because your limitations are so severe. I never claimed to be an author on all work done, nor do I claim to have a hand in all tegu work. Any statement of such is proposterous, and someone thinking so only goes to show their woefully unenlightened status. There have been researchers before me who worked on tegus, there are going to be many researchers after me who are going to work on tegus. I did not do any of the work involved in that paper, big whoop. I do personally know everyone authored there, but it doesn't mean anything either. However, unlike you, I have at least read and understood that paper. But, if we take your example, that beings as my name isn't on that one paper, my status is void, lets look at the entire peer reviewed literature base on Tupinambis......hmmn, no Bobby Hill or Varnyard. I guess by your own criteria here that means you are a nobody? Not my criteria, but yours.

Oh you can look anywhere, I am well known in the reptile community. Maybe you should have picked your fights a little better or at least done your home work!! :wink: A simple broser search will work, just type in Varnyard, you will get your answers.




Guess I was wrong. I guess that is because you are a student or a MSc Candidate at the (UBC) Department of Zoology and not a actual scientist. Correct?

I do have a degree, and that's a lot more than you. I have never denied I'm a student. In fact, anyone that has ever asked me about such without being a self-important twit I have always told so. I do research, I publish that research and share it with other scientists for their perspectives and insights. I admit, I haven't published much, but I have still got a massive pile of data I'm working on. I get paid to do my research. I would call that being a scientist. And yes, I am a student. I hope to be so for the rest of my life. A student is someone who learns, and I plan on spending the rest of my existence doing so.

And I was keeping as well as raising reptiles long before you wore your first diaper.

I also did not see you setting the record straight when people call you something your not, like a scientist. You could have said you were a student, but chose not to.




See, I am more than able to learn.
Your diatribes on here prove otherwise. The only thing you have learned was back on the elementary school playground. The rest of us have left those tactics back there where they belong and grew up. You didn't learn this information, you had someone point it out to you, and in your infinite wisdom the only thing you could think of doing with it is to try smearing someone else's reputation with it. Congratulations, you show great talent. Can't prove him wrong, so prove he shouldn't be believed because he's black/Jewish/a student/drives a Miata/eats goat cheese. I don't care about my reputation, that is unimportant to me. I'd rather people learn and do some critical thinking of their own. Like I've always said, I have the data to back up my claims and have put it forward for all to see.

Just how am I smearing your reputation? I do think you need to stay in school, you have a lot to learn.



Again, I STRONGLY suggest Varnyard's status as a moderator be reviewed.

I suggest you pick your fights a little better and grow up. And I should be pulled as a Moderator for what? Because you don't like getting the same crap you dish out? As moma said many times, don't dish it out if you can not take it. :wink:

tupinambis
10-14-2006, 01:40 AM
That is not a proven fact though, is it?

Again, your talent at vagueness is astounding. What is not a proven fact?


Oh you can look anywhere, I am well known in the reptile community. Maybe you should have picked your fights a little better or at least done your home work!! A simple broser search will work, just type in Varnyard, you will get your answers.

Reputation reputation reputation!!! Isn't it somewhere in a CoffeeCrisp commercial that a small child says with wisdom "Just because you say it, doesn't make it true"? In case you haven't noticed yet, the internet is full of misinformation. The fact that you have got a bunch of stuff on the internet means jack squat. The fact that one can find some of your stuff out there and your name on forums means jack squat. Anyone can, and does, post anything they want on the internet, doesn't make it true or even valuable. I could post that feeding tegus raw uranium ore will make them grow up big and healthy, produce 2000 eggs per clutch, and promotes intelligence. Doesn't make it true. You are known in the PET reptile community, that's all. I admit you have (probably) good husbandry skills and have kept a number of reptiles successfully. You think what you've got out there is so valuable, but you know what? No scientist uses the internet for their data source, primarily because it is mostly junk. And if you go back and actually read what I said, I claimed peer reviewed literature, ie. first account research articles. Your name comes up nowhere where it would count scientifically. So, yes, I did my homework. Had you done yours, you would have realized there's a difference between self-aggrandizement and peer reviewed publications.


And I was keeping as well as raising reptiles long before you wore your first diaper.

First, I'm quite interested in seeing how old you think I am.
However, I don't doubt your statement one bit. And what makes that statement so pitifully sad, is that you've been keeping and raising them for so long, and have learned so little.


I also did not see you setting the record straight when people call you something your not, like a scientist. You could have said you were a student, but chose not to.

Your statement here only further emphasizes how woefully ignorant you are about academics. I do science research, I am paid to do science, I teach science, I go to scientific conferences to exchange ideas, information and get new perspectives, I have also been asked to review others' work and contribute my ideas to journals. How is this not being a scientist? If you actually went to a respectful university and asked about, you'd find that the vast majority of the research is conducted and written up by the graduate students. Professors mainly guide and direct things. ALL are considered scientists in the process. Or how about the paper you brought up. Would you call all the authors of that paper "a scientist"? That's interesting, because a number of those were only M.Sc. students, same as me, when the work for that paper was done.

I am not a professor, nor have I made any insinuations that I was. And for the record, I have told anyone who wasn't being a self-important twit that asked that I was a student. But let's take your point. So I'm a student. By being a student, I guess that means (or at least you are insinuating) that nothing I've said should be believed or respected. Ok, then what does that mean about you? You haven't got a degree at all, are not a student, by this same criteria it invalidatess anything you say. You are so busy flinging feces and shouting "look! look everyone! He has feces on him!" that you've failed to notice everyone is staring at you in disbelief because you're rooting around in your own underwear with your barehands to find said feces.

Face it. You cannot attack the data I've presented, so the only way you see to save face is to attack my character. And yet the way you go about it, you fail to see that you are also undermining your own credibility.


Just how am I smearing your reputation? I do think you need to stay in school, you have a lot to learn.
The proof is directly above. And yes, I plan to stay in school. I plan to continue learning all I can. The day one stops learning is the day one should "hang up their hat". Learning is EXACTLY what being a scientist is all about.


I suggest you pick your fights a little better and grow up. And I should be pulled as a Moderator for what? Because you don't like getting the same crap you dish out? As moma said many times, don't dish it out if you can not take it.
You see, this is exactly what I'm getting at. I haven't picked any fight. You have posted material of which a fair bit of it was conjectured and erroneous (although some of it was true and I've always admitted so) but was presented as hard fact. I stepped in and presented what was hard fact to correct those errors, and YOU respond by fighting. In fact, in this particular thread, I fully acknowledged what you see as probable, but that we see something different in our pens. For this, you started a fight. Quite frankly, if I do say so (and the private messages I've been receiving seem to back me up) I am taking your "beating" well and haven't suffered for it.
I suggest your status as moderator be revoked because you clearly are not "moderating". Your approach to this forum has been that if anyone contradicts you (which is mainly me, admittedly), they are to be smacked down. You have rarely acknowledged anything as being a valid point in and of itself, instead your position has been to slander and attack. This isn't the action of a moderator, it's the action of a dictator.

varnyard
10-14-2006, 05:22 AM
What I see is grounds for a deleted post, that is what I see. You temper tantrum speaks volumes about yourself. With statements like:


that you've failed to notice everyone is staring at you in disbelief because you're rooting around in your own underwear with your barehands to find said feces.

And lets not miss this one:
I have told anyone who wasn't being a self-important twit that asked that I was a student.

I might add, I found out without your help. So do tell the truth. :wink:

With statements like this you are asking for your post to be deleted.


But you are so right. You have studied tegus for two years, and now a well known expert/student in your field. The truth would be you have not even been around tegus long enough to see one reach adulthood. It takes three years for this process.

I will say this, what do you think, a reputation means nothing? You need to learn that reputation goes much farther then these forums, it goes with you everywhere in life.

You do have a lot to learn. When you get well over 30 years in reptiles then maybe you will have learned what I am talking about. 2 years is far from close.

I will say you have brought out some good points as well. The part about tegus urinating on the nest. I knew it was more moist than the ground around it. However I did not smell it to see if it was urine.

There are also a few other good points as well. And yet others that I know are not so.

If you are such a expert that has nothing left to learn, then why fallow me around the forums on every answer given? Why don't you just post all of this expert advice? Or is it that you are just looking for a argument? :roll:

tupinambis
10-14-2006, 07:16 AM
I might add, I found out without your help. So do tell the truth.


Who claimed I told you? Certainly not me. However, we both know you didn't uncover this by yourself.


With statements like this you are asking for your post to be deleted.


And your crass statements and harassment don't?


But you are so right. You have studied tegus for two years, and now a well known expert/student in your field. The truth would be you have not even been around tegus long enough to see one reach adulthood. It takes three years for this process.

Hahaha :lol: , seriously, keep jumping to those unfounded conclusions, they serve you well. You keep reading into statements that which hasn't been said. I spent 2 years studying tegu hibernation in detail in Brazil, roughly 6 years or more studying them in general, scientifically. I have been keeping, breeding, and working with tegus since the late 80's. Next....


I will say this, what do you think, a reputation means nothing? You need to learn that reputation goes much farther then these forums, it goes with you everywhere in life.

You do have something of a point there, I cannot deny. But thankfully, I don't rely upon forums for my reputation. My peers are more concerned over the quality of my work and my ability to comprehend developing research.


You do have a lot to learn. When you get well over 30 years in reptiles then maybe you will have learned what I am talking about. 2 years is far from close.
I agree, I do have a lot to learn. And like I said before, if you think it's only been 2 years.....well, it does show you are way off in thinking you know me. I learned what you are talking about a long time ago, passed that point, and moved ahead. Some of us have steeper learning curves.


The part about tegus urinating on the nest. I knew it was more moist than the ground around it. However I did not smell it to see if it was urine.
Thankfully, I didn't have to. Nor did I have the whimsy to think they regurgitated on their eggs....


And yet others that I know are not so.

You keep saying so, and so far the only thing I've seen that you've shown where I was wrong was in assuming you weren't myopic. Please, do tell on what points I was wrong and please provide the references that back up that information. Remember, "I know" is not a reference. If you won't accept it from others, then you can't expect them to accept it from you.


If you are such a expert that has nothing left to learn, then why fallow me around the forums on every answer given? Why don't you just post all of this expert advice? Or is it that you are just looking for a argument?
And where on earth did you pull up this little nugget? It has never been me to claim I have nothing left to learn, in fact if you actually looked at what I've said, I've said the exact opposite. I have a lot left to learn, and hope to continue learning for the rest of my life. I've also denied in other posts of being "an expert", simply because an expert usually thinks there's nothing left to learn. They tend to think their reputations are all that are needed to back up their statements.

Neither do I follow you around the forums on every answer given. I've stated often enough I have no interest in such things as how to tame your tegu or the best way to train them to do things like use a litter box. I humbly leave those forums to those of you who have greater interests in those matters than I. My interests are in their biology, natural history and helping people not be misinformed on those.

I'm not looking for an argument, but if someone wants to tell me that my facts are nonsense without any kind of reliable evidence to back them up, then yes, I'm going to be assertive and defend my stance.

The funniest thing about all this is I've given you the opportunity to completely and meaningfully prove my research is bunk and that I am spouting crap, and yet you haven't taken it. Remember? I've offered to fly you out at my own expense to personally scrutinize the data and present your findings to a scientific committee, same as I have to do, on the caveat that if you cannot do so, you have to refund all my expenses on the matter. I think it's pretty clear that I'm prepared to "put my money where my mouth is", but you are not. I wonder why that is.....

So, don't disappoint, Varnyard. Against Rick's wishes/regulations, you've made this very personal. There is an audience out there dying to read your scathing response. Or better yet, demonstrate your hyprocrisy as you so often have threatened...

varnyard
10-14-2006, 10:36 AM
So, it is that you are just looking for a argument. That is all you needed to say, without going into more of your long drawn out lack of class.

morthan
10-14-2006, 08:03 PM
umm, wow, i had heard you two dudes could get at it, but i dont think ive ever seen anyone get so wupped since Desert Storm

Daggit_Columbian
10-14-2006, 09:36 PM
Easy there! geez....... varnyard go easy on him, if you feel as though you are that much older than him and so much more mature, leave him be..... Tupinambis can be hot headed but like you are on freakin fire, i think everyone gets the point........... 8O

DoniP
08-11-2007, 02:42 AM
I was just looking for Tegu Breeding Info when I stumbled on to this battle of Tegu knowledge. I have Pitbulls and Rotts and even Males that have been raised together from birth if unnuetered will end up fighting a couple times. I was very happy to hear that Varnyard is able to breed groups of males and groups of females together without conflict. If you can do that then thats what you want to be able to do regardless of who can and can't do it. But then all of Tun...'s males killed each other so it makes me a little scared. Were Varnyards raised from birth together and were T's not. Either way I like the perspectives and think its the best way to gain the knowledge needed to embark on your own breeding aspirations. But what is the final say on hibernating immediately. Can I skip the first year or two and then begin hybernating on the start of the third and expect eggs. Thanks and I wouldn't mind hearing both guys answer.

varnyard
08-11-2007, 03:37 AM
IMO, I think it has a lot to do with if the animals are tame. Mine are tame, so this could make a very large difference.

As for all of them being raised together, that would not be a factor, based on my males being at different ages. I have some that are three, yet others that are eight or more.

Note the males together:

<center>http://www.www.thetegu.com/modules/coppermine/albums/userpics/10203/thumb_New_Tegus_R_S_1_6.jpg (http://www.www.thetegu.com/a45p118)
Click To Enlarge (http://www.www.thetegu.com/a45p118)</center>

Two males laying together, also the next picture under this one shows yet another male outside.
<center>http://www.www.thetegu.com/modules/coppermine/albums/userpics/10203/thumb_DSCF0040.JPG (http://www.www.thetegu.com/a45p-1471)
Click To Enlarge (http://www.www.thetegu.com/a45p-1471)</center>

<center>http://www.www.thetegu.com/modules/coppermine/albums/userpics/10203/thumb_DSCF0043%7E1.jpg (http://www.www.thetegu.com/a99p-1472)
Click To Enlarge (http://www.www.thetegu.com/a99p-1472)</center>

This male is also taken at the same time, in the same enclosure:

<center>http://www.www.thetegu.com/modules/coppermine/albums/userpics/10203/thumb_DSCF0029_001%7E0.jpg (http://www.www.thetegu.com/a45p-1473)
Click To Enlarge (http://www.www.thetegu.com/a45p-1473)</center>

However, I do separate them during breeding, I want to know who is breeding what.

I will also say, Bert Langerwerf has breeding lots of 7 males to 5 females, he claims this increases the fertility rate in the eggs.

I would not keep my males together if there were violent fights between them.

By the way, welcome to the site.

gebris353
02-06-2008, 11:22 PM
Before the interpretation posts, I enjoyed reading your breeding post Varnyard, I live in Argentina so I know many of the breeders here: "El gringo" (I bought mine here), "Saurios", "Las tres iguanas" (of Roberto Fracchia in Córdoba), etc. I like yours better tho, cause here they use them for food, creams and do wallets and boots with their skin, just a little amoung go for pet stores, specially the ones exported.

I only have something to add and its that in the wild not all the tegus made their own nest, in fact they are lazy for that so they use to get one already done from nature or other animals specially "vizcachas" (couldnt find the translation for this word, they are little bigger than hares). And I've seen them, looking for a "vizcacha" and finding a lay tegu in the cave! :P

I have a question too, I dont know anything about breeding and since I have just discovered that my 10 years old tegu is a female in fact I got a doubt. I've never seen an egg from her, and a friend of mine with a iguana gets up to 40 eggs every year without any male. So is this normal for my tegu and this only happens to iguanas or this means my tegu is egg-binding or something like that? Thanks in advance! :D

tupinambis
02-07-2008, 11:27 PM
This is normal for tegus. Most tegus will only breed after some sort of dormancy period (typically hibernation) and females will not produce eggs if they are not bred. Iguanas do not hibernate and females usually will produce eggs without ever having been mated.

gebris353
02-08-2008, 03:05 AM
Thanks for the answer tupinambis, glad to know she is ok then. :D

JC
04-26-2008, 08:35 AM
Hello
I buy tegus fron Ron out of San Diego
He has been breeding tegus for over 30 years
He had females lay good eggs at less then a year old and not hibernated last year
The babies all turned out healthy
Nobody knows everything and fighting over the issue is a waste of both of your time and defeats the purpose of this forum
I wish you all could just work together instead of fighting over who is the bigger dog on the porch
I am friends with most of the tegu breeders in California
We all try to help one another
There is plenty of pie for everybody
We are all learning still and should work together instead of having ego trips or fighting over who is the #1 tegu expert
No need to fight guys
Say what you want but keep it real.
Best Regards
JC

Lucille
04-27-2008, 02:49 PM
I wish you all could just work together instead of fighting over who is the bigger dog on the porch


That is one of the greatest quotes anywhere. Not just for tegus, but for life.