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View Full Version : Feeders.. Mice, Crickets, Worms, Roaches, etc



Rick
12-20-2004, 08:18 PM
I was curious how many people here actually breed feeders for their tegu?

I currently have a 10 gallon tank I use to order 1000 crickets at a time, but I don't actually put any breeding media in there. I have several small tanks I am using to breed mice. Tux is currently on fuzzies and breeding mice is a lot easier/cheaper then buying live fuzzies or storing 500+ fuzzies in the freezer.

My current breeder mice have 8 to 12 pinkies each litter and I have several females pregnant all the time. I am currently looking to buy some lab mice to use as breeder stock. These are known to have larger litters (up to 24 pinkies on average) and they breed just as fast and just as often.

I plan on making a large breeding colony in the outside shed during the summer and freeze what I don't use. This will get me through the winter without having to have a bunch of tanks inside.

I have also given thought to raising hissing cockroaches, but I don't think they are the best option.

Rick
theTegu.com

Rick
theTegu.com

John
12-20-2004, 09:07 PM
I would love to breed my own feeders. Mice and rats both Stink no matter how often you clean their cages and no matter what substrate you use! I'm 19yrs old still living at home so I'm still going by what the parents say (if it were totally up to them I wouldn't have any reptiles, lol I have no choice but to be defient to a degree, they put up with the lizards though.) I had about 10 gravid female hissers but they all ended up being fed off to my striped possum I had back in the day. Crickets make to much noise and also smell! Roaches would be great but we have these things that put out a weird frequency to keep away roaches and ants and everything and they work very well so I doubt they would breed for me anyways. Supposedly it drives mice and rats crazy as well. Anyways I'm stuck with buying f/t for now. My partner will be breeding mice/rats in mass soon for our ball morphs so I'll just be picking out a few to take home to my place :-) Till then I'm stuck ordering in bulk! From what I hear there are much better roaches to use besides hissers.

tc5000
12-21-2004, 03:28 AM
I'm not one for watching the whole kill thing and I'm a vegetarian. However I enjoy keeping carnivorous lizards so I am stuck with f/t rodents. I do feed crickets but only 2 weeks out of each month. I order them 500 at a time and at $12 delivered I figured that beats the hassle and stench of keeping and breading them full time.

I'm picking up the freezer tomorrow that I bought Sunday before I met John, specifically for the frozen feeders =) 4.7cf for only $140 at Home Depot.

Rick
12-23-2004, 01:32 AM
I do feed live and frozen pinkies/fuzzies. I must admit that it can indeed be hard to raise something "warm and fuzzy" and then feed it off to the tegus. I have given thought to prekilling the mice, but most methods seemed a little less humane then the quick 'grab and snap' my tegus do.

I have recently done much research and will soon be making a small CO2 euthanasia chamber. The gradual displacement of room air with CO2 will allow for the anesthetic effect of CO2 (CO2 narcosis) to take place before asphyxiation so there will be little to no pain before suffication.

For anyone interested, here is my small inside breeding colony, I intend to set up a larger colony in an outside shed this summer so that I have a steady supply of feeders.

http://www.www.thetegu.com/modules/Gallery/albums/album06/Breeder_Tanks_rescued_Golden_Geckos.thumb.jpg (http://www.thetegu.com/modules.php?set_albumName=album06&id=Breeder_Tanks_rescued_Golden_Geckos&op=modload&name=Gallery&file=index&include=view_photo.php)

Rick
theTegu.com

KLiK
12-23-2004, 03:47 AM
i breed my own mice for my monitor. i keep 1 male and 5 females in a 10g with 5inches of wood saving, a food dish, and a water bottle. i have had a very small problem with the male eating pinkies, but there are so many of them and usually he only will take out 2 or 3. as for feeding, i feed my monitor live pinkies, fuzzies, and adults and have had no problem. Rick if you want a quick CO2 chamber just take a small bowl with water n put dry ice in it then put a bigger bowl turnd over on top of it and put the mouse under

Rick
12-23-2004, 04:00 AM
From what I have read, precharging the chamber is not as humane. A sudden exposure of conscious mice to carbon dioxide concentrations of 70% or greater has been shown to be distressful so the use gradual displacement of room air with CO2 at 10% to 20% saturation is the best method to use.

What I am going to do is get a small canister with cover. Drill a hole near the botton and mount one end of a coiled paintball remote. The other end I will attach to a 20oz CO2 paintball tank. I will drill an exhaust hole at the top of the canister, now a euthanasia chamber. The mice will be placed into the canister and the CO2 will be turned on at approx. 20% displacement. As the CO2 enters the euthanasia chamber it, being heavier then air, will force the air up and out of the whole on the top. By now the mice are affected by CO2 narcosis, the anesthetic effect of CO2, and feel nothing. In a few minutes all air will be displaced by CO2 causing the mice to be asphyxiated.

I understand this is more work then it's worth to some people, but even thought I am willing to kill a mouse for my needs I wish to go through the little extra effort to make it as humane as possible.

Rick
theTegu.com

KLiK
12-24-2004, 04:46 AM
to be honest i never even thought about using a paintball CO2 canister. thanks for the idea

Rick
12-24-2004, 04:51 AM
I figure CO2 is CO2 and a paintball CO2 canister is smaller and you can get it filled nearly anywhere. Since I often paintball I do have some 20oz tanks and a paintball CO2 'remote' hose. I am going to dig them out of the 'summer stuff' and either pick up something to use as a chamber for the gas or perhaps make something simple from lexan.

When I finally get around to it I will post pics.

Rick

John
12-24-2004, 06:14 AM
I just kill them with my bare hands. Large rats can be a pain in the arse and get bloody. Tegus like em either way!

Rick
12-24-2004, 08:16 AM
That's one of many possible methods, second only to the "Ozzy Osborne" method (biting the heads off). I personally would rather go with the more humane method of CO2 euthanasia.

Rick
theTegu.com

toad
12-24-2004, 04:17 PM
Working in a medical research facility I have a lot of experience with sacrificing animals. With all of the mice, rats, and g. pigs with use CO2. It is basically just a small rubbermaid garbage can with a clear plastic hose running from the CO2 tank. According to regulations we have to pre fill the can and then put the animals inside. If the animals are inside when the CO2 is released then the animals will stress before the gas can take effect. Just my two cents!!

Zack

Rick
12-24-2004, 06:17 PM
I have read and done alot of research and years ago precharging the euthanasia chamber was the primary method for doing euthanasia in most lab animals. It appears that most of the new documents claim you may still precharge for any animal that the CO2 does not cause distress.

From what I have read from recent studies and documents the precharging does appear to cause distress in mice and rats. When a rat is subjected to higher then 70% they dig, claw, climb, and otherwise try to escape and if subjected to 10 to 20 percent displacement they don't.

I am unsure as I am not in a situation where I do this every day. I will just make the small setup and try 10 to 20 percent displacement and see the results. I will then try 100% displacement by pre-charging the chamber and see if they react differently.

Thanks for the input.

Rick

Steve
01-10-2005, 04:10 PM
I breed my own disco roaches, hissing roaches, some crix(don't want to deal with breeding crix), rats and mice.

charlene
01-11-2005, 05:26 PM
I buy my crickets in bulk. 500 Twice per month. It costs my $20 from my local petstore but there is no shipping. It would be beneficial to me to breed my own mice seeing how I spend $50+ dollars a month on them (wow i'm starting to see where all my money goes lol) but I can't kill them, I would even feel guilty using a CO2 chamber. I think i'll just order them online.

As for the roaches. I have never used them but have done plenty of research because I plan on trying them when I find a decent price. Non-climbers seem to be the way to go (discoids, death heads, ect.) but they don't appear to be as prolific as the madagascar which is another plus when you have a bottomless pit, I mean baby tegu as a pet.

Charlene

John
01-11-2005, 07:24 PM
Charlene....Look up having crickets shipped to you. I believe 1000 is something like $11-20 shipped! As for Feeders...look into buying frozen. Rodentpro.com Rocks!

charlene
01-11-2005, 07:28 PM
Thanks :) I'll check out rodentpro.

FutureVet
01-15-2005, 10:09 AM
I have thought about breeding some of things I use for food as well. I cannot feed live mice though. Actually, I wasn't even sure I would be able to stand feeding frozen thawed, but it doesnt bother me at all because the mice are already dead. If I had my own baby mice, I'd probably just raise them as pets or something horrible/crazy like that and Tessa would not be happy with me then! :P :P Also, being at home and under parents rules, they don't like the lizards much and do not want me feeding live mice. They just don't like it or something either, so breeding them is way out of the question.

I go to a reptile store here and they breed all their mice, rats, crickets and worms. I get a great price for crickets and worms, plus I don't have to pay shipping, so breeding these would be more of a hassle.

Well, I was bored and thought I'd just share this. lol ~Christie

Rams
01-15-2005, 12:55 PM
That's one of many possible methods, second only to the "Ozzy Osborne" method (biting the heads off). I personally would rather go with the more humane method of CO2 euthanasia.

Rick
theTegu.com

I don't really agree calling gassing them humane. We had this discussion on other forums and every time the outcome was that a quick death is much humaner then gas them.
Here in Europe, as far as I know, most people just through mice and rats to the floor/table/wall hard and its done.

I tried hitting them in the neck, fixating neck and pulling tail etc etc, but this fast bash to the floor (with or without putting them in a bag of some kind) is the fastest and least stressful.

just my 2 cents :)

Rick
01-15-2005, 04:04 PM
Everyones opinion is certainly valuable. My issue with any quick blow (throwing hard against the floor) or even cervical dislocation is that if it's not done right the mouse can suffer. With Carbon Dioxide (CO2) gas there is no real pain, there is no suffering. The animal is first taken by the narcotic effect, then the oxygen is slowly replaced with CO2, which causes asphyxiation (suffocation).

An example would be to go to the doctors. Have an anesthesiologist administer gas, once you are 'asleep', they remove all oxygen from your breathing supply and let you suffocate, then put you in a bodybag and freeze you. You would not feel anything if it was done this way. Of course, don't try this at home. You are likely way to large for my tegus to eat. :P

The key is slowly putting in the CO2 so that is displaces the oxygen at about 10 to 20%. Within a few minutes the mouse just goes unconscious and then you can increase the CO2 mixture rate, let the chamber sit full of CO2 for 10 minutes (to be on the save side) and then take the mice out and freeze.

The American Veterinary Medical Association's Panel on Euthanasia (Journal of the AVMA, Vol. 202, No. 2, Jan. 15, 1993), the best (most humane) way to kill rats and mice that will be fed to other animals is to asphyxiate them with carbon dioxide (CO2) gas. Other gases can be used, but then there could be "accumulation of tissue residues in food producing animals." (not good to feed to your tegus). The report conditionally finds cervical dislocation to be an acceptable method also, as long as the rats are small (less than 200 grams). Bonking, stunning, etc. are specifically listed as NOT considered acceptable.

If anyone can show me any evidence at all that it is not humane then I will certainly consider it with an open mind. I personally find CO2 to be humane. It's not quick, but it is painless if done correctly.

Rick
theTegu.com

Rams
01-15-2005, 04:18 PM
Of course, don't try this at home. You are likely way to large for my tegus to eat. :P

I think so .. 6.5 ft :p

I just think its way to much fuss to 'gass' rodents.. I need only some 15 a week so thats hardly worth some installation of any kind.