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View Full Version : Has anybody seen a Col. and Arg. TEGU X? Is it possible?



Alek
07-23-2008, 05:03 AM
Has anybody crossbred a Columbian and a argentine tegu or a Tegu with anything else, If so lets see some pix. :D

Angelrose
07-23-2008, 05:48 AM
I remember reading a conversation that came down to this and the only answer that stuck in my mind was " who would want to " .....lol.

because of the size difference I don't see how it would really be possible. on that note let me just say I have no breeding experience.

this is interesting. let's see if anyone does know.

Alek
07-23-2008, 06:08 AM
I think anything is possible now a days :lol:

Alek
07-23-2008, 07:06 AM
They have crossed milks and corns

Boas and pythons

meanah
07-23-2008, 12:13 PM
i would love to have an arg. col cross

laurarfl
07-23-2008, 04:15 PM
Here's my half-brained understanding of it....

Some species can produce a hybrid cross and some can't because the alleles don't match up. Simply put, an allele is one of the pair needed to make a gene.

Some reptiles can be bred together because they are similar genetically, but they have to be tricked. The male of one species is placed with a female of the same species. As they get ready to mate, the female is switched out for another species. The males are so 'ready' they don't seem to notice that someone has switched their girl. I have a feeling this is what would be necessary for a Colombian Arg mating. Of course, that's assuming the Arg female doesn't eat the Colombian male first!

Some reptiles simply can't be bred together. Boas (live bearers) can't be bred to pythons (egg layers), and iguanas can't be bred to geckos, etc.

corn-ball
07-23-2008, 05:05 PM
i dunno about boas and pythons. i can see milks and corns because they are pretty similar, both rat snakes and colubrids.

i don't know much about breeding, husbandry or any of that, but can you mate a large col. with a medium sized tegu...?

that would be sweet if you could mix a tegu and a Uromastyx 8O

hoosier
07-23-2008, 06:50 PM
i do believe that even a female arg would be much bigger than a male columbian. with that difference alone i would think would stop that idea. but like anglerose said, who would want to. hybrids are considered bad to alot of keepers. they see it as a mudding of the gene pool that is arlready limited in this country.

Alek
07-23-2008, 07:06 PM
Boas and pythons have been crossed before But I don't think it lasted that long, I met the man who did it and he owns two petcos now because he sold them

laurarfl
07-25-2008, 03:06 PM
Really? What did he cross? I didn't think they matched up...genetically that is....

greentriple
07-25-2008, 03:31 PM
Not so sure about the boa/python story, but what do I know.

My favorites are:

corn and nuts

Staw and Berries

Chocolate and Milk

and what's realy amazing is how well the french mix with fries and toast.

hoosier
07-25-2008, 04:07 PM
Not so sure about the boa/python story, but what do I know.

My favorites are:

corn and nuts

Staw and Berries

Chocolate and Milk

and what's realy amazing is how well the french mix with fries and toast.

ahahahaha! thats awsome. dont forget pea and nuts.

on a serious note: i actually watched a show about a liger. a lion crossed with a tiger. it was pretty neat.

Angelrose
07-25-2008, 04:31 PM
............tooooo funny !! I like sword and fish.

worldeater
07-25-2008, 04:41 PM
lol i like the letter S and laughter

Alek
07-25-2008, 05:46 PM
Well maybe the guy was full of shhhh I don't think it is not possible everything is possible what if you mated the male python with a female boa :?:

Alek
07-25-2008, 05:52 PM
I remember reading a conversation that came down to this and the only answer that stuck in my mind was " who would want to " .....lol.


I guess you don't belive in cross race marriages :lol:

HaskovoPunch
08-01-2008, 05:49 AM
I know N.E.R.D. is constantly cross breeding snakes. check out the N.E.R.D. website maybe someone can affoard one haha.

Angelrose
08-01-2008, 06:01 AM
do you have one ?

HaskovoPunch
08-01-2008, 06:09 AM
They are cool animals but dont really interest me to much. They have a couple here that are python crossbreeds. They have also done Ball pythons and blood pythons. http://www.newenglandreptile.com/available/showcat.php?cat=39

Angelrose
08-01-2008, 06:10 AM
hey, thanks for the link.

LeNoir
09-26-2008, 05:22 PM
The same question could be asked of mating a monitor and a tegu.

We could see just how close that convergent evolution was ;)



I dunno much about Tegus, and I am certainly no expert of reptiles, however, I would guess that a Columbian and Argentine tegu could be crossed. Like someone said above me, the genes must match from each species.

For example, humans have 46 chromosomes. Upon inspection you might think that an ape and a human could mate but we cannot because apes only have like 30 something. (I'm no geneticist either :( )

However, if the number of chromosomes are very similar, a hybrid can still happen, but the offspring will most likely be sterile. This would most likely be the case for Tegus since there seem to be no hybrids found in the wild.

Courtesy of Wikipedia:
* Dog hybrids are crosses between different breeds and are often bred selectively.
* Hybrid Iguana is single cross hybrid, result of natural inbreeding from male marine iguana and female land Iguana since late 2000s.
* Equid hybrids
o Mule, a cross of female horse and a male donkey.
o Hinny, a cross between a female donkey and a male horse. Mule and Hinny are examples of reciprocal hybrids.
o Zebroids
+ Zeedonk or Zonkey, a zebra/donkey cross.
+ Zorse, a zebra/horse cross
+ Zony or Zetland, a zebra/pony cross ("zony" is a generic term; "zetland" is specifically a hybrid of the Shetland pony breed with a zebra)
* Bovid hybrids
o Dzo, zo or yakow; a cross between a domestic cow/bull and a yak.
o Beefalo, a cross of an American Bison and a domestic cow. This is a fertile breed; this along with genetic evidence has caused them to be recently reclassified into the same genus, Bos.
o Zubron, a hybrid between Wisent (European Bison) and domestic cow.
* Sheep-goat hybrids, such as the The Toast of Botswana.
* Ursid hybrids, such as the Grizzly-polar bear hybrid, occur between black bears, brown bears, Kodiak and polar bears.
* Felid hybrids
o Savannah cats are the hybrid cross between an African serval cat and a Domestic cat
o A hybrid between a Bengal tiger and a Siberian tiger is an example of an intra-specific hybrid.
o Ligers and Tigons (crosses between a Lion and a Tiger) and other Panthera hybrids such as the Lijagulep. Various other wild cat crosses are known involving the Lynx, Bobcat, Leopard, Serval, etc.
o Bengal cat, a cross between the Asian Leopard cat and the domestic cat, one of many hybrids between the domestic cat and wild cat species. The domestic cat, African wild cat and European wildcat may be considered variant populations of the same species (Felis silvestris), making such crosses non-hybrids.
* Fertile Canid hybrids occur between coyotes, wolves, dingoes, jackals and domestic dogs.
* Hybrids between Black Rhinos & White Rhinos have been recognized.
* Hybrids between spotted owls and barred owls
* Cama, a cross between a Camel and a Llama, also an intergeneric hybrid.
* Wolphin, a fertile but very rare cross between a False Killer Whale and a Bottlenose Dolphin.
* A fertile cross between an albino King Snake and an albino Corn Snake.
* The Wurdmann's heron, a cross of the white heron and the great blue heron.
* At Chester Zoo in the United Kingdom, a cross between African elephant (male) and Asian elephant (female). The male calf was named Motty. It died of gut infection after twelve days.
* Cagebird breeders sometimes breed hybrids between species of finch, such as Goldfinch x Canary. These birds are known as Mules.
* Gamebird hybrids, hybrids between gamebirds and domestic fowl, including Chickens, Guineafowl and Peafowl, interfamilial hybrids.
* Numerous Macaw hybrids are also known.
* Red Kite x Black Kite: 5 bred unintentionally at a falconry center in England. (It is reported that the black kite (the male) refused female black kites but mated with two female red kites.)
* Hybridization between the endemic Cuban Crocodile (Crocodilus rhombifer) and the widely distributed American Crocodile (Crocodilus acutus) is causing conservation problems for the former species as a threat to is genetic integrity. [2]
* Blood parrot cichlid, which is probably created by crossing a Gold Severum and a Midas Cichlid or Red Devil Cichlid

Hybrids should not be confused with chimaeras such as the chimera between sheep and goat known as the geep. Wider interspecific hybrids can be made via in vitro fertilization or somatic hybridization, however the resulting cells are not able to develop into a full organism. An example of interspecific hybrid cell lines is the humster (hamster x human) cells.



Also from Wikipedia:
A number of conditions exist that limit the success of hybridization, the most obvious is great genetic diversity between most species. But in animals and plants that are more closely related hybridization barriers include morphological differences, differing times of fertility, mating behaviors and cues, physiological rejection of sperm cells or the developing embryo


I have been wondering this for a while also, if someone has more information I would be very grateful for the knowledge! Perhaps it would be possible to create very docile golds, or large golds, or maybe a gold/black/white AND blue tegu :)

sruli
12-10-2008, 05:55 AM
You are somewhat mistaken on what lets animals breed together. For example, human-ape hybrids are indeed possible, zygotes exits in laboratories.

Horses and donkey can mate. In this case, the offspring are usually infertile, because, yes, the alleles do not completely match up. BUT NOT ALWAYS - occaisionally a kind of genetic trick occurs - which will allow 'grandchildren'. The grandchildren are not mixed, however. Instead these sports are actually %100 horse (or donkey - I admit that I forget the precise details of how it works, very embarrassing).

So - physical incompatibilities can be overcome by fertilizing in vitro. It is possible, it happens. If the same number of chromosomes are present in both species that can help, but it's not a dealbreaker either way.

You can make predictions based on studying the genomes of both, but even today, in the final analysis, we won't know until we try.

As for why somebody would want to - well... what if you could breed a small lizard with the temperament of a B&W?

Certain animal families are very conservative genetically - like felines. It seems that all felines can interbreed. Certainly all of the big cats can interbreed - even Jaguars with African species, that have been separated geographically for a very long time. Also, all of the small cats can interbreed. Canines are also conservative - dogs, wolves, jackals coyotes, and at least some foxes are compatible. Chimpanzee species are also conservative - gorillas, chimps, bonobos all crossable (they have a very conservative phenotype as well).

There are some reptile species that are considered to be closely related, even though they have some pretty big physical differences. Jackson's and Johnston's chameleons are considered to be closely related. I always wondered if they would crossbreed. And if they did, would the offspring lay eggs or not?

One further consideration - the offspring of a cross is not necessarily going to have a phenotype that is a median of the parents. Completely new traits can appear. The offspring of lions and tigers tend to be much larger than either of the parents (at least in one of the crosses). Ligers are NOT the same as Tigons in appearance.


The same question could be asked of mating a monitor and a tegu.

We could see just how close that convergent evolution was ;)



I dunno much about Tegus, and I am certainly no expert of reptiles, however, I would guess that a Columbian and Argentine tegu could be crossed. Like someone said above me, the genes must match from each species.

For example, humans have 46 chromosomes. Upon inspection you might think that an ape and a human could mate but we cannot because apes only have like 30 something. (I'm no geneticist either :( )

However, if the number of chromosomes are very similar, a hybrid can still happen, but the offspring will most likely be sterile. This would most likely be the case for Tegus since there seem to be no hybrids found in the wild.

Courtesy of Wikipedia:
* Dog hybrids are crosses between different breeds and are often bred selectively.
* Hybrid Iguana is single cross hybrid, result of natural inbreeding from male marine iguana and female land Iguana since late 2000s.
* Equid hybrids
o Mule, a cross of female horse and a male donkey.
o Hinny, a cross between a female donkey and a male horse. Mule and Hinny are examples of reciprocal hybrids.
o Zebroids
+ Zeedonk or Zonkey, a zebra/donkey cross.
+ Zorse, a zebra/horse cross
+ Zony or Zetland, a zebra/pony cross ("zony" is a generic term; "zetland" is specifically a hybrid of the Shetland pony breed with a zebra)
* Bovid hybrids
o Dzo, zo or yakow; a cross between a domestic cow/bull and a yak.
o Beefalo, a cross of an American Bison and a domestic cow. This is a fertile breed; this along with genetic evidence has caused them to be recently reclassified into the same genus, Bos.
o Zubron, a hybrid between Wisent (European Bison) and domestic cow.
* Sheep-goat hybrids, such as the The Toast of Botswana.
* Ursid hybrids, such as the Grizzly-polar bear hybrid, occur between black bears, brown bears, Kodiak and polar bears.
* Felid hybrids
o Savannah cats are the hybrid cross between an African serval cat and a Domestic cat
o A hybrid between a Bengal tiger and a Siberian tiger is an example of an intra-specific hybrid.
o Ligers and Tigons (crosses between a Lion and a Tiger) and other Panthera hybrids such as the Lijagulep. Various other wild cat crosses are known involving the Lynx, Bobcat, Leopard, Serval, etc.
o Bengal cat, a cross between the Asian Leopard cat and the domestic cat, one of many hybrids between the domestic cat and wild cat species. The domestic cat, African wild cat and European wildcat may be considered variant populations of the same species (Felis silvestris), making such crosses non-hybrids.
* Fertile Canid hybrids occur between coyotes, wolves, dingoes, jackals and domestic dogs.
* Hybrids between Black Rhinos & White Rhinos have been recognized.
* Hybrids between spotted owls and barred owls
* Cama, a cross between a Camel and a Llama, also an intergeneric hybrid.
* Wolphin, a fertile but very rare cross between a False Killer Whale and a Bottlenose Dolphin.
* A fertile cross between an albino King Snake and an albino Corn Snake.
* The Wurdmann's heron, a cross of the white heron and the great blue heron.
* At Chester Zoo in the United Kingdom, a cross between African elephant (male) and Asian elephant (female). The male calf was named Motty. It died of gut infection after twelve days.
* Cagebird breeders sometimes breed hybrids between species of finch, such as Goldfinch x Canary. These birds are known as Mules.
* Gamebird hybrids, hybrids between gamebirds and domestic fowl, including Chickens, Guineafowl and Peafowl, interfamilial hybrids.
* Numerous Macaw hybrids are also known.
* Red Kite x Black Kite: 5 bred unintentionally at a falconry center in England. (It is reported that the black kite (the male) refused female black kites but mated with two female red kites.)
* Hybridization between the endemic Cuban Crocodile (Crocodilus rhombifer) and the widely distributed American Crocodile (Crocodilus acutus) is causing conservation problems for the former species as a threat to is genetic integrity. [2]
* Blood parrot cichlid, which is probably created by crossing a Gold Severum and a Midas Cichlid or Red Devil Cichlid

Hybrids should not be confused with chimaeras such as the chimera between sheep and goat known as the geep. Wider interspecific hybrids can be made via in vitro fertilization or somatic hybridization, however the resulting cells are not able to develop into a full organism. An example of interspecific hybrid cell lines is the humster (hamster x human) cells.



Also from Wikipedia:
A number of conditions exist that limit the success of hybridization, the most obvious is great genetic diversity between most species. But in animals and plants that are more closely related hybridization barriers include morphological differences, differing times of fertility, mating behaviors and cues, physiological rejection of sperm cells or the developing embryo


I have been wondering this for a while also, if someone has more information I would be very grateful for the knowledge! Perhaps it would be possible to create very docile golds, or large golds, or maybe a gold/black/white AND blue tegu :)

worldeater
12-10-2008, 09:16 PM
ouch, my brain....i've read too much

camb
12-11-2008, 02:02 AM
i agree with wolrdeater.

pokeystotle
04-07-2009, 05:10 PM
They have crossed milks and corns

Boas and pythons

But why? It's like the people that cross breed dog breeds. Why would you do that? Do these people have any idea how long it took to breed some of these dogs to be what they are today? Probably not.

People are cross breeding raptors as well. Ferruginous hawks, and red tails, peregrine falcons with Gyrs, merlins, prairies....I hate it personally. It muddles things up, and makes them usually much worse.

laurarfl
04-08-2009, 12:43 AM
Many people are aware of the work involved in creating a dog breed. Many breeds came from bringing various breeds together in the first place. :wink:

It may be difficult to imagine, but some people may like the aspects of two different breeds they are bringing together.

pokeystotle
04-08-2009, 04:18 PM
Many people are aware of the work involved in creating a dog breed. Many breeds came from bringing various breeds together in the first place. :wink:

It may be difficult to imagine, but some people may like the aspects of two different breeds they are bringing together.

I don't support crossing pure bred animals to any degree. Falconers are doing it with peregrines, and other falcons. It muddles things, and I appreciate the clearly marked lines brought about by distinct species, and breeds.

It is always irritating when someone has say a 'Silkapoo'. My mother has one, and I wish she wouldn't have encouraged that by buying it! Most dog breeds are brought about for various reasons, mostly it would seem for tasks. I have two chihuahuas, and a Newfoundland. I'm glad they aren't Newfy x St. Bernard, or Chihuahua x Yorkshire terrier. :D Cross breeding two dogs for superficial reasons is somewhat irresponsible I think.

I certainly wouldn't do it with T. tequixin, and T. meranei if such a thing was possible.

Remember "Just because you can, doesn't mean you should"- Anonymous author.

dpjm
04-08-2009, 04:33 PM
I don't see much problem with crossbreeding dogs. First, all breeds were produced by crossbreeding to begin with, so who's to say where this process should end. Second, crossbred dogs are generally healthier than "pure" breeds because they are not subject to imbreeding depression, which comes about as a lack of variation in genetic material.

As for other animals, I don't see much of a problem, as long as two things don't occur:

1) Hybrids that are produced do not suffer by virtue of being alive, although this might be difficult to determine, especially given the fuzzy definition of "suffer".

2) Hybrids are kept in captivity and never released into nature.

As long as these two conditions are not violated, what is wrong with playing with genetics?

laurarfl
04-08-2009, 07:24 PM
I have a purebred Australian Shepherd and he's great. I just don't push my opinions on what I think people should or shouldn't have. A friend of mine has a Maltipoo...good for her...if she likes that kind of dog.

I also have and breed hybrid corn snakes. I appreciate the fact that some people don't like hybrids...it's kind of a live and let live.

Drake_Marcus
05-04-2009, 04:57 PM
But why? It's like the people that cross breed dog breeds. Why would you do that? Do these people have any idea how long it took to breed some of these dogs to be what they are today? Probably not.

People are cross breeding raptors as well. Ferruginous hawks, and red tails, peregrine falcons with Gyrs, merlins, prairies....I hate it personally. It muddles things up, and makes them usually much worse.

That's not really a fair characterization. Sometimes crossbreeding is useful, and with all the artificially created breeds of dogs it's arguable whether there's some sort of honourable dog breed integrity anyway.

Here's an example. My mother's always wanted a Shar-Pei. Unfortunately they're known to be prone to skin problems and sometimes require expensive veterinary treatment for that. My mother felt that was particularly undesirable for the dog and for her pocket book. The solution? She ran into a breeder that breeds Shar-Peis with 1/4 Black Lab in the mix. Black Labs have very healthy skin and apparently this hybrid vigor gave the puppies a better defense against skin conditions in their wrinkles. The result? We have a healthy, happy 10 year old Shar-Pei who's never had skin issues (aside from needing her skin tacked above her eyes a couple of times, but that's normal for wrinkly dogs). Sure she's dumber than a sack of hammers, but we love her that way. :lol: Our last dog was a Beagle-Doberman mix (an adoption) that was smart as a whip, so having a dog that can be easily tricked is kinda fun. :wink:

camb
05-15-2009, 02:00 AM
But why? It's like the people that cross breed dog breeds. Why would you do that? Do these people have any idea how long it took to breed some of these dogs to be what they are today? Probably not.

People are cross breeding raptors as well. Ferruginous hawks, and red tails, peregrine falcons with Gyrs, merlins, prairies....I hate it personally. It muddles things up, and makes them usually much worse.

Well pokeystotle, I am very much in favor of cross-breeding dogs. I assume its very different with falcons, but dog breeds were produced by years and years of inbreeding, which also caused uncountable health problems. Such as hip dysplasia in large dog breeds, and breathing problems in pugs and bulldogs and skin problems in breeds like charpees. crossbreeding allows the health problems to dissipate and it is proven that "muts" live longer and healthier lives.

meanah
05-15-2009, 02:31 AM
yeah... id love to see a col. arg cross.. i think that the person would have to have a big col male and a nice arg female.. it might be possible..

bubbategu2
05-21-2009, 11:24 PM
I have a B&W Colombian male that bred an B&W Argentine female that my friend thinks is possibly gravid. (this was purely by accident while they were soaking in the tub together.) Will let you know what happens...

Ryanb12345
11-26-2010, 05:29 PM
I have a B&W Colombian male that bred an B&W Argentine female that my friend thinks is possibly gravid. (this was purely by accident while they were soaking in the tub together.) Will let you know what happens...
Has the female laid eggs yet and if she has did they hatch

bubbategu2
12-16-2010, 07:32 AM
The female was given to a third party but wasnt gravid, or at least I hadnt heard it was

Pikey
12-16-2010, 05:35 PM
in my opinion they can never cross breed as they both develop at different rates & temps in their eggs.
the Argen is around 120 days at a temp in the 90's / the Colom is around 170 days at a temp in the 80's

so i am no geneticist, but i dont see how it would ever work out.

TeguKid80
12-17-2010, 08:41 PM
Just to start off my opinion here I am a very anti hybrid person. I do not believe it is right nor morally correct to do. However, I have seen one tegu that looked strange, kind of like what I think an Arg. X Col. would look like. I'll snap pics of it next time I see it and post them. However, boas X pythons are not possible. It's simply logic. To say they are doesn't even make sense. Boas give live birth. Pythons lay eggs. Not possible to cross. Enough said. I do think Arg. X Col. would be possible but I have no idea why someone would ruin a perfectly good clutch with those crossed genetics. IMHO.

STLherps
12-30-2010, 09:21 PM
Just to start off my opinion here I am a very anti hybrid person. I do not believe it is right nor morally correct to do. However, I have seen one tegu that looked strange, kind of like what I think an Arg. X Col. would look like. I'll snap pics of it next time I see it and post them. However, boas X pythons are not possible. It's simply logic. To say they are doesn't even make sense. Boas give live birth. Pythons lay eggs. Not possible to cross. Enough said. I do think Arg. X Col. would be possible but I have no idea why someone would ruin a perfectly good clutch with those crossed genetics. IMHO.


I couldn't agree more. Common sense boas & pythons cant cross, never have never will. I personally am a fan of certain hybrids (carball or carpondro carpet x chondro gtp) I also love the hybrid tegus (red x blue) or all americans. But crossing something like a col. to arg. seems pointless. low demand for columbians vs. peoples fav. argentines. id pay $100 for one just to have but $250+ seems like it would be a waste of money. Its like buying off brand its ok but not the real deal.

TeguKid80
01-03-2011, 04:52 PM
Yeah I would accept one free but I sure wouldn't pay for one. I love the blues you produced btw they look great STLherps(I think that was you).