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teguman1
08-10-2008, 08:26 AM
this im my opinion so dont take it offensively, i hate it when people gripe about feeding mice and or rats killing them in a sertin way, just kill the thing its a stupid mouse that is the bottom of the food chane and is ment for food, its going to die so stop the tree hugging and kill a copule and do the world a faver.

1.THEY STINK

2.THEY TERORIZE YOUR HOUSE

3.THEY CARRY DISEASES AND/OR VIRUSES

Angelrose
08-10-2008, 10:52 AM
did you have the experience of someone asking you; oh, how can you kill them ? they are so cute. 'that' conversation ...lol

teguman1
08-10-2008, 11:13 AM
ya i was chewed out because i just suffucate them or hit them or freeze them alive but some stupid peson sayed that i shouldnt kill it like that i should gas it let it go because it isnt humane to kill it like that wich is bull crap :x

corn-ball
08-10-2008, 02:07 PM
yeah i feed the tegu and the corn snake frozens, but i make sure that my ball python gets the hunt he deserves. screw those people who flip out over feeders. it's not like we're running out of rats.

funny that this topic comes up because i was just thinking that i have no problem feeding live mice or whatever, but i would feel bad using anole lizards ahah

meanah
08-10-2008, 04:10 PM
haha i have feed off anoles.. to my tegu.. hte liked it.. ive only done it once tho

teguman1
08-10-2008, 07:41 PM
ya i just hate tree huggers lol

Alek
08-11-2008, 06:42 AM
I just get F/T because I am a tree huger F_ _ _ _ _ _ :lol: and its cheaper :wink:

teguman1
08-11-2008, 07:49 AM
lol

worldeater
08-11-2008, 03:57 PM
yea, i'd prefer to gass em, i really liked the hairless rat i got my tegu, me and the rat kicked it on my bed, eating chips n watching tv cause my tegu was asleep. he was a cool rat. but the time came so i bashed his head in with a ball-peen hammer i was a little sad cause he was watching me do it like, "hey, i thought we were cool!" but my tegu's gotta eat. period.

teguman1
08-11-2008, 09:01 PM
lol that sucks

worldeater
08-11-2008, 11:00 PM
i understand what people mean, we have a choice, snakes don't. to eat, a snake must capture and suffocate a mouse. not the most humane death, but it is what is avalable to the snake.

as a human, you have the option to kill the mouse painlessly. to show appreciation for that mouses life and respect for all life you put the mouse to sleep in a Co2 box, and he floats away on a fluffy and sleepy cloud of painless dreams. never even knowing that he died. wouldn't that be nice? and wouldn't you want that same loving treatment if you were in little chuck e cheezes position? yea, we'd all be so lucky to die that softly.

but hey a hammer to the cranium is allmost as fast. sure, their's that O-**** moment where the mouse realizes it's skull is flat, it can't see and their's blood leaking out of every oriface. but hey thats life. it's still faster than being suffocated.

moral of the Story? mice are the bottom of the food chain. if one has died of old age, mother nature made a mistake. how they're killed doesn't matter as long as it's quick and for a purpose. as a human, you decide according to your own morals. i would love to gas em. but i can never remember to get the damn co2 bottle, so i have a hammer till i do.

GotteeGuy
08-13-2008, 12:35 PM
i prefer to shoot them. the bullet goes right through and it's painless.

worldeater
08-13-2008, 03:20 PM
i'd be afraid the bullet would frag off a little and give my tegu lead poisoning.

Ben3233
08-13-2008, 04:05 PM
I agree with worldeater,

I understand that many people think that mice are on the base of the food chain. But, I must say that feeding captive bred reptile with lived mice isn't the real "rule of nature"

Why? Because in nature, the herps have to work hard to survive. So killing a mouse or other prey is their only way to survive. I never saw a mouse, looking at his predator and say: hey cmon ! eat me, I won't defend myself, just try to kill me fast please!

Then again, do you think that in nature, the mouse will be trapped in a 6X3X3Feet enclosure?

Just like Worldeater said, I think that every one of us, would like to die as painlessly as a killed mouse on Co2.

But this is only my opinion, so, just take it as a grain of salt :wink:

PuffDragon
08-13-2008, 07:58 PM
A CO2 chamber is very easy to make and should only cost around $40. Try your hand at it. Here is a very nice write up on how to do so.
http://www.sammygreggreptiles.com/co2.html

teguman1
08-19-2008, 05:17 AM
some times i just smake there head with a hammer i dont feed mice anymore i feed rats and there harder to kill sometimesso smash um or cash um

worldeater
08-19-2008, 05:37 PM
Rat $4
ziplock freezer bags $3
co2 tank with baloon filling adapter, $15
the smile on my tegus face when she knows she's getting a rat today Priceless

tedthetegu
10-27-2008, 04:52 PM
wow i can't believe how this thread went inactive!
i get chewed up all the time about feeding live or "inhumanely" killing rodents
i got harassed by members of PETA for purchasing a rabbit while i was pet sitting my friends reticulated python. apparently its cruel to feed snakes bunnies
it was great seeing their faces after explaining rodents breed quick because of their short lifespans and that reptiles need food too

after that, i bought my first large snake. a baby albino burmese python (named cornbread)

ChaimsMom
02-08-2009, 05:40 AM
Feeding live adult mice or rats to your reptile can be dangerous for the reptile, and should be discouraged based on those grounds. Any animal that will take frozen/thawed, should! If you think a predatory reptile needs some behavioral enrichment, hold the f/t rodent in a pair of tongs and drag it around the enclosure for a simulated hunt. It only takes one bad mouse bite to get infected and kill an animal.

That said, there is a difference, in my opinion, between believing an animal has an absolute right to life and believing an animal has a right to be treated humanely. I don't think a pinky mouse has an absolute right to stay alive, but I do believe it has a right to be handled (including slaughtered) with as little stress and pain as possible. Carbon dioxide gassing has been shown not to cause fear or pain (by the absence of elevated cortisol in the blood after slaughter). Another method to kill rodents with minimal stress is by snapping the neck; one can take a mouse by the tail and, using a very quick flick of the wrist, separate the skull from the spinal cord. This causes virtually instant death.

Personally, I am a vegetarian--I have the choice to be one. For those in my care who don't have that choice, I will seek meat from animals slaughtered with minimal stress. There is nothing "cool" about making oneself hardened to the consideration of the pain of the Other--even if the Other is the bottom of the food chain.

Greenmanbacchus
02-08-2009, 07:09 AM
Feeding live adult mice or rats to your reptile can be dangerous for the reptile, and should be discouraged based on those grounds. Any animal that will take frozen/thawed, should! If you think a predatory reptile needs some behavioral enrichment, hold the f/t rodent in a pair of tongs and drag it around the enclosure for a simulated hunt. It only takes one bad mouse bite to get infected and kill an animal.

That said, there is a difference, in my opinion, between believing an animal has an absolute right to life and believing an animal has a right to be treated humanely. I don't think a pinky mouse has an absolute right to stay alive, but I do believe it has a right to be handled (including slaughtered) with as little stress and pain as possible. Carbon dioxide gassing has been shown not to cause fear or pain (by the absence of elevated cortisol in the blood after slaughter). Another method to kill rodents with minimal stress is by snapping the neck; one can take a mouse by the tail and, using a very quick flick of the wrist, separate the skull from the spinal cord. This causes virtually instant death.

Personally, I am a vegetarian--I have the choice to be one. For those in my care who don't have that choice, I will seek meat from animals slaughtered with minimal stress. There is nothing "cool" about making oneself hardened to the consideration of the pain of the Other--even if the Other is the bottom of the food chain.That's an excellent point, ChaimsMom:) There are plenty of videos on the net showing what might be termed gruesome killings of rats, mice, etc by various predators,(Tegus, Monitors, boas, pythons, etc). On the other hand, I wouldn't feed frozen/thawed prey to anything...ever ( Just my opinion)
Mice are killed instantly by the snap of a finger, to be offered, still kicking to the predator. ( Predators are notoriously inefficient killers, creating long sloppy deaths to their prey as well as risking injury to themselves)
Rats are instantly killed by body slams to the floor, to be offered, still kicking to the predator. I have little use for C02 chambers,with the exception of predators that are expected to be handled, such as Tegus and some Monitors. In those cases, 'still kicking' may create an accelerated prey drive in the predator, which in turn may lead to accidental bite incidents with the handler. IMO freshly killed (FK) prey whether 'kicking' or not is always to be preferred over F/T.
IMO there is a huge qualitative difference in the food value of FK over F/T
both on a physiological and psychological (as it were) basis).
I have been keeping various predators for some 40 years now and I have no interest in 'watching it kill something'...indeed, I have no real interest in the feeding process at all except as it pertains to the continued
health and well-being of the animal being fed.
And...that's all I have to say about that. ;)

CodynThor
04-02-2009, 01:56 AM
Well as a rat owner, I actually don't agree with you on several points,

Rats are usually very clean, and the only time they smell is when someone is irresponsible and don't clean their cages.

Ours don't terrorize our house, they hardly even leave our sides when given "free roam time"

I think you just have the generalized "rats = eww" opinion, If we generalize everything, than we would be a truly ignorant race.

and I would have to agree with everyone that says there are better ways to kill them, although I can't tell you what to do, but I don't see how you haven't been over come by guilt.

and I'm pretty sure someone along the line has said "If you can ruthlessly kill an animal without a second thought, then the same can be said of humans, thus showing your real character, which is not a pleasant one."

I mean I'm not whining about rats dying, because as a reptile owner I know a herps gotta eat. and I also have had to kill rodents, but even after doing it, I still don't agree, It's on the same lines of "it's ok that I killed and innocent guy, we are at war."

pokeystotle
04-02-2009, 08:19 AM
haha i have feed off anoles.. to my tegu.. hte liked it.. ive only done it once tho

I would watch doing that. Most store bought anoles are carrying something nasty.

As for the topic, there are humane ways to kill mice. The freezer is your best friend in this case as it is humane to kill the mouse this way. You might also remind the person that is complaining that the mice are specifically being bred for the purpose that you are using them for. E.g. there would be no mouse to let go(which is a bad idea anyway) if there was no tegu to feed.

pokeystotle
04-02-2009, 08:23 AM
some times i just smake there head with a hammer i dont feed mice anymore i feed rats and there harder to kill sometimesso smash um or cash um

Yes but one day you'll get bored of watching your animal kill things, and finally realize that you could have saved yourself a lot of time in the first place. There is no good reason to feed a tegu of any species live feeders. They will all eat, and readily accept thawed rodents.

CodynThor
04-02-2009, 11:27 AM
some times i just smake there head with a hammer i dont feed mice anymore i feed rats and there harder to kill sometimesso smash um or cash um

Yes but one day you'll get bored of watching your animal kill things, and finally realize that you could have saved yourself a lot of time in the first place. There is no good reason to feed a tegu of any species live feeders. They will all eat, and readily accept thawed rodents.


well put ^-^

laurarfl
04-02-2009, 12:56 PM
Hmm...putting mammals in the freezer is less humane than feeding live. Freezing live mammals is a slow painful death.

Sorry if the following is graphic for some....
The most humane way of euthanizing rodents for feeding (besides a CO2 chamber) is to quickly separate the spinal column from the brain by grasping the tail at the base and hitting the base of the skull against a counter or table. You can also take a 2x2 of wood and place it over the head, then pull back on the tail, breaking the neck. Just grasp the tail at the base so you don't pull off the tail or the skin.

GISHerps
04-02-2009, 01:59 PM
I use a screwdriver to brace behind the head and either pull the base of the tail or sometimes also the rear legs so as not to pull the skin off the tail which is not hard to do.

Another way to euthanize is to use dry ice in a deep bin or empty garbage can. Drop the ice in warm water bowl and put in your rodents. It's the same result as a CO2 chamber but more economical. I would only advise this if you had a large number to kill off and freeze though. Also use extreme caution if you try this yourself as the gas can knock you out too.

pokeystotle
04-03-2009, 04:56 PM
Hmm...putting mammals in the freezer is less humane than feeding live. Freezing live mammals is a slow painful death.

Sorry if the following is graphic for some....
The most humane way of euthanizing rodents for feeding (besides a CO2 chamber) is to quickly separate the spinal column from the brain by grasping the tail at the base and hitting the base of the skull against a counter or table. You can also take a 2x2 of wood and place it over the head, then pull back on the tail, breaking the neck. Just grasp the tail at the base so you don't pull off the tail or the skin.

Yes. Putting animals in a freezer where they go to sleep is in fact more humane than pitting them for their lives against a large predator. To wit, my hawk caught a rabbit, and began eating it alive. Or being suffocated by a large constrictor, not to mention the pain involved.

Of course killing rodents shouldn't be a problem if you are buying them frozen already.

Boozer
06-03-2009, 12:34 AM
jesus people just swing them by the tail and whack their head against something hard!! the freezer idea.. is just plain stupid!! we are not into torture we are into feeding our animals with the least danger for them. THATS HOW I SEE IT!!

laurarfl
06-03-2009, 02:32 AM
Agreed. ;)

axeslinger
06-03-2009, 02:53 AM
Wow!Interesting thread here.I feed my ball pythons all live mice.I always watch to see if they are getting bit by the mouse and I stop it.But lately with all the people saying how bad the snake can get hurt I use the grab the tail and wip it against something to knock them out routine.I also feed my tegus live mice and they pretty much grab the head and clamp down.The fuzzy rat pups work well but boy do they skweeeeel! like little pigs... Mice don't bother me but I have a different feeling with the rats.I have them as pets but when the animals get big I'll go to frozen rats...Axe:|

laurarfl
06-03-2009, 01:07 PM
People have different thoughts. I had a 20yo ball python that was given to me (that I recently rehomed) and his poor little face is just a mess of scars. I'm sure it was from rat bites. By the time you find the prey has bitten the snake...it has already bitten. Just like with any bite, it is a puncture infused with bacteria. Once that scab sets it's a nice environment for anaerobic bacteria to grow and create a lovely abscess. Yuck!

Boozer
06-03-2009, 02:02 PM
Agreed. ;)
thanks laura. it just make the most sense.

bubbategu2
06-03-2009, 06:26 PM
That's exactly what happened to my B/W Columbian I got from rescue. He had gotten bitten so severely-got a horrible absess on his leg and one eyelid was ripped off! Poor guy! He's lots better now. And he just eats F/T mice. I think he must have been given a live rat that was way too big for him. :sad:

Quijibo
09-29-2009, 03:12 PM
I was at a pet store with my daughter when she was about 6. She said "Dad, look at the rabbits" and I asked her "Em, what are rabbits for?" she said "Yeh, I know... snake food". The scewed look on the face of the woman behind us in line was priceless.
I explained long ago to my kids that some animals are food for others. That's why they "Breed like rats".

:grin:

iwoodtoo
10-06-2009, 06:43 PM
this im my opinion so dont take it offensively, i hate it when people gripe about feeding mice and or rats killing them in a sertin way, just kill the thing its a stupid mouse that is the bottom of the food chane and is ment for food, its going to die so stop the tree hugging and kill a copule and do the world a faver.

1.THEY STINK

2.THEY TERORIZE YOUR HOUSE

3.THEY CARRY DISEASES AND/OR VIRUSES

how old are you?.....your spelling is really bad.

Quijibo
10-06-2009, 11:16 PM
Nice. 2nd post and already criticizing someones spelling. Feel better about yourself now? This is a Tegu enthusiasts community, not a spelling bee. I swear, some people have nothing better to do but scour the net looking for spelling errors. Seems there's one in every forum.

Rant over.

laurarfl
10-07-2009, 01:29 AM
I don't want to see a flame war start on this thread.

I know that proper spelling makes a post easier to read, but let's not be harsh. Some people are using English as a second language here and some, like my daughter, may be truly dyslexic and have spelling issues.

We like to keep this site friendly and open to communication. :)

Thanks

Quijibo
10-11-2009, 12:01 AM
My apologies to the mods, and any members who feel my response was harsh.
I'm a member of many forums and my biggest pet peeve is members who do nothing but increase their post count by taking cheap shots at other members. I know a lot of folks that are extremely intelligent, who put very little importance in their typing abilities and it shows. We all know what they mean.
Ironically, this little discussion, though uncalled for, seems somewhat appropriate for this thread.
Again, my apologies.

Back to feeding cute fuzzy things to ugly, smelly, scaly, cold blooded things.:P

laurarfl
10-11-2009, 04:02 PM
My post was not directed at you, Quijibo. I thought you were well in line and you are a wonderful contributor to the forum. I appreciate you sticking up for the original poster. I only wanted to prevent a back and forth debate that could have come after your first post.

iwoodtoo
10-13-2009, 11:56 AM
Nice. 2nd post and already criticizing someones spelling. Feel better about yourself now? This is a Tegu enthusiasts community, not a spelling bee. I swear, some people have nothing better to do but scour the net looking for spelling errors. Seems there's one in every forum.

Rant over.


My apologies to the mods, and any members who feel my response was harsh.
I'm a member of many forums and my biggest pet peeve is members who do nothing but increase their post count by taking cheap shots at other members. I know a lot of folks that are extremely intelligent, who put very little importance in their typing abilities and it shows. We all know what they mean.
Ironically, this little discussion, though uncalled for, seems somewhat appropriate for this thread.
Again, my apologies.

Back to feeding cute fuzzy things to ugly, smelly, scaly, cold blooded things.:P

O.K., hmmmmm, so tell me how many posts do i need before i can state my opinion?
A whopping 28 posts like you? Back off pal.

tegulov3r
10-13-2009, 05:51 PM
i have 4 rats as pet, a Black n white Tegu, and a Hypo Tangerine Honduran Milk snake. the worst part of feeding a live feeder is hearing them cry when getting attacked. For those who kills the feeder before feeding it...why not get the frozen ones? Save yourself the trouble of having the guilt of killing the poor thing and having the feeder attack your precious pet. i always feed my Tegu and Milk snake F/T and they eat it happily without complaints. if u say its not natural for them to eat something already dead...that's is not totally true... im pretty sure in the wild, if they found food that is dead already...they will eat it. and if you want talk about "NATURAL"...keeping them in a cage is not NATURAL. just my 2 scent. ;-)

Quijibo
10-14-2009, 12:25 AM
O.K., hmmmmm, so tell me how many posts do i need before i can state my opinion?
A whopping 28 posts like you? Back off pal.

Nice 3rd post. Try being a little helpful, or at the very least, add something entertaining. Pal.
No amount of posts gives you the right to belittle the op.

iwoodtoo
10-14-2009, 06:47 PM
Nice 3rd post. Try being a little helpful, or at the very least, add something entertaining. Pal.
No amount of posts gives you the right to belittle the op.

o.k., i have thought it over and you are right, i was out of turn to say what i originally said, and to you also, i am sorry,

truce?

Quijibo
10-14-2009, 09:41 PM
No problem. I already apologised for my knee jerk reaction. I have made alot of friends on these forums that are from countries outside than the US. Many of them like (attempt?) to post in English. The results are pretty humorous sometimes.

Pikey
12-22-2009, 12:23 AM
people go on and on about humane killing with CO2.... ummmm how is asphyxiation humane... any1 other than me ever pasted out from CO2 it's not a drift off on clouds it's scary it hurts & not a good feeling

the enigma
12-22-2009, 02:54 AM
yeah man feeding a tegu or snake a rat is just part of nature which is un-changeable so people need to stop worrying about mice "suffering" it is part of life. And as far as killin rats... man im not even going to say it

the enigma
12-22-2009, 02:56 AM
o and why dont people stop worrying about dum rats dying and start worrying about important stuff like abortion or something

lovestegus
12-27-2009, 08:19 AM
Just thought I'd mention that a mouse or rat with a full coat of fur put in the freezer will most likely take many hours, some times up to 24 hours to actually freeze and die. Just an FYI for anyone who believes it's humane to do it to anything other than fuzzies and below. An easy and pretty much instant way to kill them without suffering is to get something like a coffee cup and press it firmly on the mouses neck and then pull it's tail upwards... You have a instantly killed mouse. If you have a problem getting the object on their neck give them a wack on the head with your fingernail and try.

kristenlparker
01-13-2010, 10:10 PM
I had someone chew me out before because I said I fed my reptiles crickets. CRICKETS! I didn't even tell her the other things I feed them... I don't personally feed my reptiles live rodents, I don't want the hassle. I don't want vet bills and I don't think I'd want to breed them and then kill them myself either because I'd just end up keeping them as pets and going to buy FT, so I just go with FT...

Marlene
01-19-2010, 11:36 PM
I love rats, but when the time comes to feed my snakes, those rats were bred to be fed, so it's not like it was going to be a pet. I used to try to paralyze them by hitting their necks against the edge of the cage/dresser, but I have horrible aim, so I started hitting their heads against the wall, well, that got too messy! So, finally, I do it by hand and "karate chop" their neck/spine or, if the rat is mellow enough, I pick it up directly behind the two front legs, give it something to bit down on and kick its legs against and I squeeze... It's supposed to suffocate them, I was told that that was a more "humane" way at killing/paralyzing. I don't kill the rats myself because my red tail hates pre-killed rats.

Pikey
01-20-2010, 12:38 AM
i know how that is.. My B&W Liz wont eat them unless they move (so i smack them against the tank)

GOT TEGUS
01-26-2010, 07:54 PM
rodents are bred for reptile food. just like people who look down feeding rats well stuffing their mouth with cow [beef] no difference except im not eating rat maybe if i lived in Africa.

Whitelightning
01-27-2010, 03:36 PM
This was a hot thread, and its pretty much over. But I thought i'd give my opinion on it.

Me persoanally, I buy them live and feed my Boa live mice. Why? Because im not about to waste my time trying to do something my snake was created to do. It may be "safer" for you and the snake, but as far as I am concerned you shouldn't have a problem. You don't feed snakes in their cage if you do it with live mice. Not just snakes either. My tegu gets a live one every once in a while. They are natural born predators, and its their instincts that triggers the need to hunt. The reason why i love reptiles is because of their natural abilities. Watching them hunt down their prey excites me. Anybody who has ever been hunting will know what i am talking about. It's not that we are killers, or we are "inhumane", its just exciting to us. Which in return brings back humanity's Pedator senses. Yes, long time ago we used to have to kill for our own food, whether it was humane, or inhumane. But being humans we tend to adapt. We are a smarter species, therfore, we have learned to grow crops and harvest foods.

Either way you look at it, the darn thing has to eat. Whether somebody else kills it, you kill it, or the hungry reptile kills it. And if you want to talk about killing something inhumane.......Cats kill inhumanely. But then again. That's just how they do it. So......What exactly is "inhumanely"? Does it really matter just as long as it gets done? The point is to kill it anyways.

VEGAS-LIZARD
03-06-2010, 01:07 AM
I used to keep rats as pets when I was a teenager and they can be cute and cuddly, but they are also pests. My parents have a free flight aviary in their yard and their neighbor brought roof rats in with the hay for their horse and they came into my parents yard to feed off the bird seed. The rats were killing and eating my parent's birds while they slept at night. It was truly gruesome. It got so bad that my dad set up a motion detector and would go out and shoot them at night. I think he ended up killing something like 80 rats and thinned them out pretty good but could never get rid of them because they were breeding in the huge burrow that the rabbits and turtles had dug over the last 20 years. Finally it rained really bad and flooded them out. So anyone who says that rats or mice aren't pests has never been infested by the little sh**s. Personally I feed frozen, but only because I think it is safer for my animal and I am too much of a puss to whack the poor things myself. LOL

Gnatilie
04-12-2012, 04:21 PM
i can't do it... they are cute...so i am taking my rats that i breed to the reptile store and trading live for dead... seems fair i don't have to kill them and i still get tegu/snake food... i like my ratties though... i guess i am weird... and i don't like killing things and i feed dead cause its easier to keep them in a freezer than keeping them alive...

tupinambis
04-12-2012, 11:37 PM
While there's some things I want to say here, I think I'll just keep it to the most salient points. Some people seriously need to check your local laws. It has nothing to do with "bottom of the food chain" or "treehuggers", in most of North America, it is simply ILLEGAL to kill a terrestrial vertebrate by means of suffocation or freezing. Gassing with CO2 isn't considered suffocation, and while low concentrations of it are indeed prolonged and painful, high CO2 concentrations are relatively quick. Cervical dislocation, decapitation, and smashing the skull are acceptable methods as long as the death is sudden. While some may make an argument of how the animal would kill prey in the wild (and currently it isn't illegal to feed live prey), the fact of the matter is the law may not care how your pet kills its prey, but it does care how YOU would.

Apophis
04-13-2012, 04:35 AM
Very good points tupinambis. Animals do have some rights, even if they are meant to be food.

gordo717
04-27-2012, 06:07 AM
i usually use needle nose plyers and squeeze there neck till i here the cracking or till they stop moving