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wintermagic
09-01-2009, 12:46 AM
I'm just curious about other opinions on this. Its a confusing issue and even harder when it happens to you.

In an animal emergency most vets want the bill paid outright. I'm not talking general care and checkups but surgeries to save the animals life. This leaves most owners in a position of most likely can't afford it. I don't have $1000+ right now if one of my pets has an emergency.

Some places like CSU did a few years back (dunno about currently) offer to fix the animal but find a new owner that can pay for it. You basically lose your animal but save its life and have no control over where it goes.

Some places tell you if you can't afford to get the surgery its kinder to put it down than let it suffer, but noooo we won't take payments.

On the vet side of this I can see the issue with if this animal doesn't make it am I gonna see the money. Because it costs for supplies and time even if it dies on the table and how many times can I afford to run a practice if I'm not getting paid.

On the owners side is the fact that the animal is part of the family and your telling me I can watch it die because I'm not rich enough to pay this bill up front.

Its a confusing and heartbreaking scenario. One I've faced in the past and one that many pet owners face every day.

Yeah you could say to not get the pet if you can't pay the bills. But then again. What was the financial position of the person when they got the pet vs where they are now. Some pets can outlive the owner.

Like I said at the beginning I'm just curious about other peoples opinions on this.

aandfsoccr04
09-01-2009, 12:57 AM
Well i have a lot of pets right now and am in college and obviously dont have a lot of spare money. Another reason why i do not have a cat or dog but rather reptiles and fish. They are not as expensive. I would keep a credit card just in case though so that i can pay now with my credit card and then make payments the best that i can. Or just ask mom and dad if worse comes to worse. not all have this luxury i understand.

wintermagic
09-01-2009, 01:07 AM
Yep many people do go into debt with their credit cards.

tupinambis
09-01-2009, 05:38 AM
There is another alternative, and that's to take out pet health care insurance. They help cover the costs of emergencies, although I'm not sure what coverage or if they will even look at reptiles.

wintermagic
09-01-2009, 05:50 AM
Thats a great idea. I wonder what that would cost to get and what it would cover.

bubblz
09-01-2009, 07:06 AM
As for the insurance,..I don't think I have ran across any companies that don't cover exotics. Since they're becoming more popular. Just like our insurance you have to do your research and determine what kind of plan you want and how you want to be reimbursed. Some cover vacs, annual check ups and things like that for free. Along with monthly premiums (or for the year at once) you still have to pay up front and then send in paper work for a refund of the amount they'll cover with certain companies. Even then different companies have different time limits as to when you'll get that money back, what and how much they're willing to cover.

All in all its the best thing to have if something actually happens to your pet, but if it doesn't,...shouldn't we get that money back :grin:? We pay for insurance just in case something happens but if nothing happens :roll: I don't know about you but I would like my money back. I guess one way of looking at it would be, if nothing happens to your pet you just helped pay for someone elses.

Idk,...just my opinion.:grin: Anywayz,..for pet insurance at the hospital I work at, the top 2 that we see a lot is VPI and Best Pets. There's another one but I can't remember what it is.

laurarfl
09-01-2009, 12:34 PM
But that is the point of insurance...you're paying someone else to cover your risk. If you got your money back 1) the insurance industry would collapse 2) it would pretty much defeat the whole "gamble" of insurance.

When I was younger, I worked in the veterinary industry to put myself through college. It is heartbreaking for the vets, too, to have to turn people away. They do similar procedures on animals that human doctors perform, but at a fraction of the cost. Plus, they have come out of vet school with sometimes more than $100K in student loans but only making a starting salary of about $30K. They do have the overhead costs in their clinics for x-ray machines, meds, even massive amounts of paper towels and bleach. Emergency clinic technicians get paid more because they are required to be more knowledgeable than the average vet tech and they have to work all-nighters (which traditionall get paid more in health care). When I did emergency clinic work my shift would run from 8pm or 12am to 8am...yuk!

Being a pet owner, I've often felt on the short end of the stick so to speak. Besides the reptiles in my sig, I also have an Australian Shepherd and two cats. The past 18 months have been murder for vet bills. I had my favorite corn snake end up with a tumor ($300), another corn needed stitches ($200), my cat got in a terrible fight with a raccoon I think ($200), dog needed ACL repair ($4000).

I'm blessed that I am able to provide for the animals I keep and wouldn't keep them if I couldn't afford to care for them properly. For the most part, I put all of my vet bills on credit cards, but I pay them off every month. Yes, people can go into debt with credit cards, but people can also use them in a financially repsonsible way. ;)

I have considered pet insurance for my dog. The surgeon gave him a 80% of blowing out his other knee, too. My husband looked at me and said, "We're not paying for another surgery like that." That bill did carry over for a bit longer than a month, so I'm inlcined to agree. But he was a 6yo active herding dog who actually was getting ready to start agility. I think his agility career is over because I don't want to ruin his other kneee, but he can run, play Frisbee, and do all the things that make him our pet.

A matter of fact, this issue relates to how we got Joey. He was obviously a Christmas puppy, but no one trained him and he was soon out of control. Think Border Collie on double expresso! He wasn't vaccinated and came down with Parvo. The owners were just going to euthanize him rather than pay for treatment. He was only 9 mos old and a purebred gorgeous Aussie. The techs asked the owners to sign him over to them, they treated the dog, and listed him as a rescue. He was such a nut that they couldn't place him in the right home. We found him on petfinder.com just as they were about to give up and take him to the SPCA as a last ditch effort. Since we are home all the time they thought we would make a good home and now I have this neurotic dog!

So I guess I'm rambling over my morning coffee. The bottom line is...try to have a back up plan in case of an emergency. Use a credit card, ask parents, but have a plan before something happens and you're scrambling to find an answer in an emergency.

http://i313.photobucket.com/albums/ll392/laurarfl/P1010004.jpg
http://i313.photobucket.com/albums/ll392/laurarfl/PA040013.jpg

wintermagic
09-01-2009, 03:26 PM
Hi Bubblz, I'm with you on wishing that we could get a refund on unspent insurance money. That sure would be nice.

Hi Laurarfl, I love it when people ramble. You are so lucky to be in that position. I have a credit card for "emergencies" but I must say it wouldn't cover a $4000 vet bill.

I feel bad for the vets that have to turn people away as well. They wouldn't be vets if they didn't love animals. It would be horrible to tell someone that obviously loves their animal that yeah I can save it but if you don't have the money I won't. Gosh, I sound like I'm against vets and I'm not. Its not a personal decision on their part. I'm sure they would love to be able to help every animal they see regardless of the cost. They just can't, somebody has to pay the bills and they have to draw the line somewhere.

I do wish they'd accept payments when it comes to those unexpected high costs though.

Personally I'm likely to spend more on an animal that I interact with. When it comes to a dog or a fish? I'll take the dog to the vet and find a way to pay the bill. Quite honestly, I'll try to fix the fish but if I can't, I'll flush the fish. That sounds cold, but for me its a fact. The bond just isn't there as much with an animal I don't interact with. Of course I don't choose to keep fish so its not a problem.

I have mixed feelings on the issue of owning a pet based on your ability to pay for the care. Again, I'm not talking about general care but mainly emergency care. Not every animal is going to get into a position of needing high cost care in its life. In fact, I've rarely run into the issue with my animals.

When I got my dog I never expected her to need a surgery beyond a spay. One day she was struggling to breath. Her tongue was turning blue. She passed out on the way from the car into the vet. We still don't know what caused it. She had a paralyzed larnyx and needed a tieback surgery right away. She was 7 and like a child to me. We managed and while she couldn't do as much swimming after as she'd prefer she did well. Without the surgery she would have died. It was a close thing on the bills though. We did look into signing her over to them to get her care but I gotta say it was horrible for me think about. For me it was like signing over my child. We didn't have credit cards at the time. I can't remember how we paid for it, it was many years ago.

And I must also admit that before I had reptiles they were in my mind a lot like fish. After having one, especially Bobby, I have to admit he's on the level of dogs and cats for me. I never expected that when I got him but now that I have him I'm not gonna turn around and get rid of him because of a possible future bill. That "emergency" credit card is getting used to fix his living situation. Now that I know what he needs... yeah its an emergency to get it done in my opinion.

laurarfl
09-01-2009, 03:47 PM
Well...there's difference between not owning an animal because of the potential for emergency costs and providing basic care. People purchase a $100-$200 animal and then complain about $20 UV light bulbs, decide not to buy them, and then don't want to treat the resulting MBD. That's the kind of situation I'm talking about.

Deciding to own a dog might not include ACL surgery or the surgery your dog required, but does require heartworm preventative, at least puppy vaccines, and probably some sort of flea control. That's the sort of basic care I mean.

I have an 18yo cat that I got as a kitten when I was a struggling college student. All I could afford was cat food, cheap neutering, and I vaccinated him myself at cost. He has had some bloodwork done a few years back when he developed kidney disease and he had a urinary tract issue when he was about 6, but that's about it for this guy. Some animals just don't cost that much!

bubbategu2
09-01-2009, 05:05 PM
We have Care Credit in California. It is a credit card that can be used for veterinary bills, and your own medical and dental bills. When Bubbategu got sick and needed surgery, I put it all (over $5000) on Care Credit. He was sick for about six months. I thank God that I had that to fall back on; however, if I knew that I was going to spend that much money on my beloved tegu and he was going to die anyway, I don't know if I would have gone that route. All I have left of Bubba is memories and a little grave in the backyard. It's really hard to justify to others spending so much money on veterinary bills but when you are faced with a life or death situation for your pet, you'll do whatever it takes. At least, that's what I did. (And I'll be paying that $5000.00 back for a long time, unfortunately.) My daughter has two English Bulldogs and they both have medical insurance because the breed has a lot of medical issues. But it's very costly, it's a monthly bill and you have to decide how much insurance to get and weigh that against the coverage. I know I couldn't afford insurance on all my pets. Dogs, cats, horses, reptiles, birds. So it is what it is. You do what you can and hope everybody stays healthy.

bubblz
09-01-2009, 05:52 PM
Care Credit,...that's what the other one is. I knew it was something that we could also use with our Health Care. Just couldn't remember the name :D.

wintermagic
09-01-2009, 05:55 PM
I agree with you 100% on that laurafl. If a person can't afford the normal expenses of vaccinations, UVB lighting etc. They shouldn't get the pet. NO question on that. :)
And I've learned the hard way about looking into an animal before getting it. I'm dealing with that now. I'm still kicking myself over that one. :) Thank goodness he hasn't had any major health problems due to my ignorance. I'm in a position now of "If I'd known then what I know now...." Nope wouldn't have gotten one. Would I give him up now? Nope, I'm attached and my pocketbook may be saying ouch but its getting fixed. :)

Bubbategu2, I've never heard of that before (Care Credit) that really is a great idea. I agree with you too, when your faced with these situations you do the best you can. There's always a risk that treatment won't work. I'm sorry for your loss of Bubba.

I don't think it is as hard to justify putting the money out as it is to justify not having the money to put out. If/when one of my pets needs care I'm all over it. I think most pet owners are. They need it I'll provide it to the best of my ability. Its when the money runs out that there's a problem.

I've been reading up on a lot of the health issues on reptiles. Its sad to see one come up with an emergency that could be resolved through a vet and the person be unable to afford it. Unfortunately, I've seen a lot of people berate the owner for these situations. Not on this forum but other places with other animals as well.

I don't honestly think theres a right or wrong answer. The owner does the best they can in a horrible situation.

laurarfl
09-01-2009, 08:27 PM
I have seen people berated for not providing vet care for their animals as well. I really try not to judge people; that ol' "walk a mile in their shoes" kind of thing. Plus people have different ideas of pets. When I was growing up, dogs belonged outside and if a pet got sick, it was "taken care of." Harsh, but my extended family are farm folks in the rural South. Animals are not on the same level as people and do not warrant expensive medical care.

I have animals that I have chosen to treat at home vs spending money at the vet and it has been fine. I wouldn't want someone to condemn me for my choice in that matter.

aandfsoccr04
09-01-2009, 11:09 PM
wow thats awful that you paid all that money for surgery and your poor tegu didn't even make it. my heart goes out to you. bubbathetegu.

wintermagic
09-02-2009, 01:39 AM
I've treated animals at home as well, it all depends on the animal and situation.

sMuttTund
11-16-2009, 11:45 PM
No. Healthcare is not a right.

No one has the right to the services of others. That includes doctors, nurses, lab techs, and all the other health care personnel. Each of these people does their job for a living, and they put in the time and effort to become trained and qualified to do their jobs.

Someone has to pay them for taking care of you. Now that the government has all but taken control, theyre going to tell all of our health care professionals how much they can make. Thats no good, either.

If you believe its your right, then tell us what do you do for a living. Do the rest of us have the right to your services, or do you expect to be paid for your work?