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Thread: Food schedule...help

  1. #11
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
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    Central FL
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    I follow the label and use 1/2-1 tablespoon per pound of meat.
    Laura R (FL)
    1.0.0 Colombian Tegu
    1.4.0 Argentine B&W Tegu
    1.2.0 Red Tegu
    1.2.0 B/WxRed Tegu
    1.0.0 Green Ameiva (yet another teiid)
    7 other lizards
    1 little gator
    3 FL box turtle
    1 Sulcata tortoise
    16 snakes
    5 fuzzy pets
    4 little frogs
    a bunch of creepy bugs
    and a partridge in a pear tree

  2. #12
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    One basic problem with following the label: are its instructions designed for this scenario? (ie. were they written as the basis for calcium content supplementation in a diet that is near totally void of calcium? Or is it as supplement to a diet that is close to balanced and just needs a little oomph?). I'm not trying to be a smartass or make you look foolish. This is a very serious issue. My experience looking at most labels is that they're not written with the idea of constructing nutrition from scratch, but adding to nutrition of basic diet. Now, if we go with the "gospel" located at http://www.nal.usda.gov/awic/zoo/Who...nal02May29.pdf

    we see that on "average" most vertebrate prey hovers at about 3% calcium on a dry matter basis. This is a little misleading because what it means is that when analysing the specimens, that in order to reduce the variability in % due to hydration level (ie. was the animal dehydrated, normal, bloated, etc.), all specimens were dehydrated prior to being analysed, and it should be clearly abundant that water composes a significant amount of regular, whole animals. I think a fair, but conservative*, adjustment would be that for whole, hydrated meats, a 2% calcium content by weight goal is good. Therefore, for every 1kg of meat, you should add 20g of calcium (or more closely resembling a single serving for a tegu, 2g of Ca for 100g of meat). The question to ask yourself now, laurafl, is does 1tbsp of your supplement contain at least 9g of calcium?

    * I say fair but conservative on the following basis: The daily intake requirement of most mammals is roughly 1.2-1.5% Calcium. Dry mass is roughly about one third of total mass, so the calcium content of whole live prey drops to about 1%, which is part of the reason for zoo protocols requiring supplementation even with whole prey. Add in that usually when using ground meats we are also incorporating other dietary items low in calcium (such as fruits and veggies) and we need to supplement more. Interestingly, the calcium content of non-chelonian reptiles is typically 2 to 3 times what is seen in mammals, which would indicate that reptiles have a greater need for calcium than do mammals. Thereby I come to the rough calculation of 2% calcium content by weight for meat.

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
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    Central FL
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    Deep down inside, I think you like being a smartass. haha That's a friendly comment, not an insult. But I don't feel foolish, I enjoy the discusion and the opportunity to learn.

    OK, I follow the directions and adjust according to what I'm feeding as a whole. There is thought behind the process, even if I don't have a nutritional lab set up in my kitchen. I feed more whole prey and skinless chicken necks than ground turkey or organ meats, so I don't rely on huge amounts of powdered calcium supplementation. I also try to choose other foods (plant matter) that are higher in calcium rather than lower. I prefer the vitamins and minerals to come from the diet if possible, but I realize that I have no idea exactly what a tegu needs. I just read, listen, and do my best to make the best decisions. Just like with my own nutrition, I avoid fad diets and try to do what makes the most sense. I have to make some assumptions: the calcium product is as good as it claims, the fact that my animals are healthy means something is at least adequate.

    I would have to agree that most supplements are geared to supplementing a diet that is closed to balanced. You know, I'll measure my calcium and see. I'm curious.
    Laura R (FL)
    1.0.0 Colombian Tegu
    1.4.0 Argentine B&W Tegu
    1.2.0 Red Tegu
    1.2.0 B/WxRed Tegu
    1.0.0 Green Ameiva (yet another teiid)
    7 other lizards
    1 little gator
    3 FL box turtle
    1 Sulcata tortoise
    16 snakes
    5 fuzzy pets
    4 little frogs
    a bunch of creepy bugs
    and a partridge in a pear tree

  4. #14
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    yes, I do enjoy being a smartass, but it's also a defensive mechanism.

    I don't think you're being foolish, but your response was typical of that of many, many, many of my students over the years who so often just wanted to know the skinny, know only the words they needed to know on their tests, and then wondered why they did so poorly on their tests. Tests aren't there to determine if you've memorized the words properly, they're there to determine if you understand the material sufficiently. I don't want you to know the words, I want you (and everyone else) to truly understand what they are doing, as keeping an animal is a long, strict test. We can all imagine what happens if you not only fail, but if you don't get a high grade.

    In the end, I don't care if people think I'm an ***, I only care if I can impact their thinking enough to improve their understanding and care of their animals, I want to improve the lives of the animals, I'm not here for popularity. And when I later see someone such as yourself impart some of this learning to others, that's when I feel good about it.

  5. #15
    Join Date
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    Location
    Central FL
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    Well, in my own defense, I'm often poking in here for a few minutes to check for spam, etc. If I see a question then I try to answer. I don't often have time to thoroughly answer, but neither do I want to ignore the question. I know this forum has a bit of a different "feel" and philosophy than the other forum, so I don't want conversations to just die out over here. However, I'm a far cry from the person who just gets the skinny or memorizes for the test. I may not have the background that you do or have access to the research and info that you do, so my answers may not be as exacting. Sure, I have nutritional content lists with comparative data according to dry matter of various food items. But if I don't also know the exact composition of any of my calcium sources, it is pretty difficult to get the proper 2-3% of necessary calcium. I do try to stay educated and make the right decision based on quite a bit of thoughtful consideration. But I don't measure out my own calcium supplementation that carefully, nor that of my husband nor my children when I cook their meals. However, I do consider what we are eating in general and I buy vitamins.

    Conversations like this are wonderful for all owners so that we can all gather information and make our own decisions. Some will become meticulous measurers, some will become more thoughtful about their husbandry, some will scoff and do nothing. I do appreciate the contributions you make and I have learned a lot from your posts. I too, feel good when I can help someone and pass that info on, regardless of whether it was my idea or if I'm giving credit to someone else.
    Laura R (FL)
    1.0.0 Colombian Tegu
    1.4.0 Argentine B&W Tegu
    1.2.0 Red Tegu
    1.2.0 B/WxRed Tegu
    1.0.0 Green Ameiva (yet another teiid)
    7 other lizards
    1 little gator
    3 FL box turtle
    1 Sulcata tortoise
    16 snakes
    5 fuzzy pets
    4 little frogs
    a bunch of creepy bugs
    and a partridge in a pear tree

  6. #16
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    lol, laurafl, I think you're reading tone into my message that isn't there. But I chalk a lot of that up to my being blunt. But let me tell you: you do a fantastic job here, and I'm not trying to punish you. A lot of what I wrote wasn't directed at YOU personally, but at people in general. I've seen you step up numerous times and pass along a lot of good information, and you strive to be as accurate as you know how, which is something I think is very important. As you say, the other site has a very different feel. I can't say it's a good one, I see so much there that saddens me. Maybe I'm biased, but for every step forward I see taken there, I also see a step backwards. Through the efforts of people like you, I see this site as generally always progressing forwards.

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
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    Central FL
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    It's hard to read messages over the Internet and try to interpret tone or emotions of any sort. Thanks for the compliment and thanks for challenging me (and us) to be better keepers. I remember a time a few years back when I was so hesitant to supplement very often for fear of providing too much calcium. But you got me thinking about the overall calcium content of the diet and I read some studies of savs absorbing dietary D and igs not absorbing D. But nothing about tegus. There really is so much that we don't know. Well, you guys in the research field might know, but it isn't common knowledge yet. That anecdotal evidence is all we have sometimes. Well, enough of being mushy. I know you get busy and it's good to see you around.
    Laura R (FL)
    1.0.0 Colombian Tegu
    1.4.0 Argentine B&W Tegu
    1.2.0 Red Tegu
    1.2.0 B/WxRed Tegu
    1.0.0 Green Ameiva (yet another teiid)
    7 other lizards
    1 little gator
    3 FL box turtle
    1 Sulcata tortoise
    16 snakes
    5 fuzzy pets
    4 little frogs
    a bunch of creepy bugs
    and a partridge in a pear tree

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Greece
    Posts
    1

    Default You actually make it seem really easy along with your presentation

    I am not sure where you're getting your info, but good topic Eco Bamboo Flooring
    . I needs to spend a while learning more or working out more. Thank you for wonderful info I was in search of this information for my mission.

  9. #19

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    Walmart has the oil in the vitamin section. Lol I looked all over before finding it

  10. #20
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    HydroHead. I'm glad you found it. You could of asked us and we could of told you where to find it .
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