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Thread: whole prey diet

  1. #21
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    I can see that...I have a tegu that likes to roam my backyard. She is a quick walker and just cruises the fence line. She'll occasionally stop and dig if she finds some sandy dirt. It's a shame I can't leave her out there more often for long periods. I wouldn't want her to escape, I have hawks, and she eats dog poo and rocks, anything shiny, etc.
    Laura R (FL)
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  2. #22
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    I stand corrected. I had always been told that, generally speaking, pinkies and fuzzies had a higher fat content than adults, and it had always made sense to me considering that mammalian babies tend to carry a higher percentage of fat on them for developmental purposes. But I can absolutely see how the adults can tend toward obesity in the manner that you pointed out.
    "Why do blessings always come in disguises? If I were a blessing, I'd run around naked."

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  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by laurarfl View Post
    I can see that...I have a tegu that likes to roam my backyard. She is a quick walker and just cruises the fence line. She'll occasionally stop and dig if she finds some sandy dirt. It's a shame I can't leave her out there more often for long periods. I wouldn't want her to escape, I have hawks, and she eats dog poo and rocks, anything shiny, etc.
    I feel the same,.. I had Natsuki out yesterday (I gotta change his name,.. its not working for me) and he found one of those decorative pebbles. Like the ones people use in the bottom of fish tanks and his tongue went into over time with his head twitching back and fourth. I snatched it before he opened his mouth but couldn't help but think this is why I follow him around the yard.

    When ever he goes out after basking he makes a bee line for the bushes . I don't know what he smells or what was in there but he loves it. He gets to digging and looking through the leaf litter,.. until he can't find anything then he moves on to the next one,.. even after he has eaten his fill.
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  4. #24
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    I am not siding one way or the other yet on the fat content, but havent people frequently used (with success) rat pups to fatten up skinnier herps?
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  5. #25
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    Easier to swallow, easier to digest.

  6. #26
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    I wonder, too, about ages of adult animals and quality of feeders. I'm sure that affects the fat content. This chart is from the Rodent Pro website, based on dry matter, and is showing only % fat.

    Nutrient Composition of Whole Vertebrate Prey
    (excluding fish)
    Prepared By: Ellen S. Dierenfeld, PhD, Heather L. Alcorn, BS, and Krista L. Jacobsen, MS - 2002.

    Mouse, domestic
    Mus domesticus



    17.0

    Neonatal, <3 g
    Mouse, domestic
    Mus domesticus



    30.1

    Juvenile, 3-10 g
    Mouse, domestic
    Mus domesticus



    23.6

    Adult or >10 g

    Rat
    Rattus norvegicus



    23.7

    Neonatal, <10 g
    Rat
    Rattus norvegicus



    27.5

    Juvenile, 10-50 g
    Rat
    Rattus norvegicus



    32.6

    Adult or >50 g


    What I interpret from this is that rats can have a higher proportion of fat than mice. I have received some large feeder mice that were seriously obese. I don't know if they were retired breeders, but they were really fat. Now I have some fat corn snakes. I cut back on the feeding frequency to accommodate, but they did seem to gain weight quickly, and during the warm season.
    Laura R (FL)
    1.0.0 Colombian Tegu
    1.4.0 Argentine B&W Tegu
    1.2.0 Red Tegu
    1.2.0 B/WxRed Tegu
    1.0.0 Green Ameiva (yet another teiid)
    7 other lizards
    1 little gator
    3 FL box turtle
    1 Sulcata tortoise
    16 snakes
    5 fuzzy pets
    4 little frogs
    a bunch of creepy bugs
    and a partridge in a pear tree

  7. #27
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    The problem with that chart (and both the original authors and the people who published the data should be severely chastised for it) is it presents these values without indication of the variabilty. To the layman, variability probably means little, but to someone knowledgeable, it helps see how "strong" the data is. Now, admittedly, the ORIGINAL original data may show this (the "study" that produced those numbers primarily hunted through the literature and dug up what values they could from that), but the compilers failed to include this. They DID include the sample size, and for the rodents, a lot of them were shockingly small. The greater the sample size, the more likely the average represents the true mean. Likewise, the variability and other values can show us how well the data fit the mean. For example, you have a classroom of 20 students. 10 students are 8' tall, 10 students are 4' tall. The average height of the students is 6', which as you should be able to see, doesn't reflect the actual situation for a single student at all. Likewise, you have a classroom of special needs kids, 5 in total. One was born without legs or arms, one has lost two legs in an accident, one is missing an arm, and the last two are siamese twins conjoined at the chest sharing a pair of legs and 3 arms. Looking at this sample set, one could conclude that humans rarely have 2 arms and 2 legs.
    Unfortunately, laypeople look at that chart and see it as absolute. I can't count how many times someone has flashed it to me and claim "see, this proves mice are a more nutritious meal than a rat" or something like that. Unfortunately, you really cannot draw that conclusion at all. At best, you can say "it looks like the trend is such'n'such" but other than that, you really can't claim anything concrete and certain.

  8. #28
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    10g for an adult mouse is pretty small. My large ones come 30-50g and heavy.
    Laura R (FL)
    1.0.0 Colombian Tegu
    1.4.0 Argentine B&W Tegu
    1.2.0 Red Tegu
    1.2.0 B/WxRed Tegu
    1.0.0 Green Ameiva (yet another teiid)
    7 other lizards
    1 little gator
    3 FL box turtle
    1 Sulcata tortoise
    16 snakes
    5 fuzzy pets
    4 little frogs
    a bunch of creepy bugs
    and a partridge in a pear tree

  9. #29
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    I get mine at a NERD in NHwhere they breed them. You can hand pick the mice and rats yourself so I can avoid any obese ones but there really aren't many. They feed the same ones to their reptiles and the snakes that they breed. I also have heard that rat are better because the bone structue is larger and has a higher calcium content. I have no idea if that is true. When I am home on my days off Tonka free roams the whole time he goes in and out of his as he pleases. My front door gets full sun through the screen door he loves spending hours basking. I am amazed how he spends hours roaming around he is very active.
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  10. #30
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    If the mouse is 100g and the rat 100g, the difference in calcium is going to be insignificant.

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