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Thread: whole prey diet

  1. #1
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    Default whole prey diet

    Someone on the other forum had started an interesting thread about people's thoughts on a mostly whole prey diet. I was hoping to get some insight on people's thought about this here. I should clarify obviously still adding in alot of variety my guy is still growing so I feed him just abou everyday. I sometimes do not even feed mice once a week. His stool is firmer after mice.
    Last edited by Herpgirl; 06-23-2011 at 11:31 AM.
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  2. #2
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    I still feed everyday but I rotate one day ground turkey with mixed veg, two chicks/mice with chopped carrot and veg, and then a day of fruit. He does get more variety then this by adding fresh fish, shrimp, chopped chicken, ground beef, egg, melon, banana, gold fish, etc but this is all in moderation. He would pretty much eat anything I put infront of his face so I try to offer a relatively healthy diet for him to thrive.
    Vanessa
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  3. #3
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    C&P

    I switched to a Primarily Whole Prey Diet back in '07 as Dino got bigger along with his appetite. It hasn't been any other way since even with babies,.. I give them what ever they can handle whole, if not I cut it up. Last week I gave Korben his first whole rat pup for a bit of exercise and to make him work for his food before cutting it up. ( I should post a video of the rib cage popping out and him eating it)

    I feed 85-90 % whole with the rest being mixed meats and fruit,.. but even then the remaining percentage is more fruit than meat. Whole prey is a complete meal in itself so you really don't need to add anything to it other than fruit here and there.

    It saves time, money (in some cases) and I don't have to supplement as much with vitamins or calcium.

    As for Obesity,.. that's an owner issue not a tegu issue, since we control what, how much and how often they eat or exercise. It's good for them to have a thick tail base but not a fat tummy. When you start to see creases and rolls on their hips (around their legs) back and neck,.. then its time to reevaluate their feeding and exercise regime.

    Some times people get caught up in bragging about the size and weight of their pets without considering how much is muscle (healthy) or fat (obesity).


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  4. #4
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    Those sound like great diets.I am sure Tonka and chevy are going to be thrilled. I picked up a whole mice to add to their diet. I wish the place was not 1 hour 20 minutes away. I think I need to invest in a freezer. 100 mice take up quite a bit of room in my freezer.
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  5. #5
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    Deep freezers are the best way to go,.. more storage for your own food as well as pet food. I got a 7 cu. ft a couple of months a go but should have went with my first thought and got something larger like a 10 or 14.
    0.1.0 BP (Spiral) aka Rita Wayward
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  6. #6
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    I know I need to find a place my basement is granite and dirt floor(old house) How many mice a week do you feed your grown tegus?
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  7. #7
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    Maybe once a week because it changes so much they may not see one for a week or two. For now with Natsuki it's more since that's what he's use to and I have to introduce him to other meats. Which hasn't been an issue in his condition,.. but I don't want to put his stomach through too drastic of a change right now.

    For now his poops are consistently firm because of them but that will temporarily change as his variety does.
    0.1.0 BP (Spiral) aka Rita Wayward
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    " 14 July 2010,..Always Remembered"

  8. #8
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    Tonka's poop can be loose sometimes. Especially when he has seafood, nightcrawlers and hornworms. His poop after rodents is so muh better although I do not breathe through my nose when cleaning it up.
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  9. #9
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    There's both benefit and disadvantage to whole prey diet, and in my own opinion, anyone claiming for any "balanced" diet to be better than another hasn't a clue of what they're talking about. The key here, though, is balanced, and this is often overlooked. The real question would then be "can a mostly/entirely whole prey diet be balanced?". Right now, no one, and I do mean NO ONE can answer this. There are a lot of people out there that claim they have evidence, and they don't really. They have anecdotal evidence, not conclusive. True evidence requires controlled experimentation, and that hasn't been done yet. Sure, there are those that claim they've fed almost nothing but whole prey and their animal is fine and this is proof of whole prey diet validity. If this were true, then those people who've got an uncle who has smoked for 30 years and doesn't have lung cancer is proof that cigarettes are healthy for you. Anyone intelligent enough should be able to see the fallacy of such arguments. I've yet to see many people claim a whole prey diet is healthy and have a tegu live much longer than eight years. To me and my understanding of physiology, metabolism of ectotherms, and longevity of reptiles in general, this is troubling. A reptile as large as tegus, and that hibernates, should be able to reach a greater age than 10 years, and I'd say by far. A whole prey diet is typically a high calorie diet, and science HAS demonstrated that high caloric intake typically shortens lifespans, no matter the species. But I'm not here to bash whole prey diets, just open some thoughts.
    I'll try to give a list of what I see as both good and bad on primarily whole prey diets.

    PROS
    In the wild, tegus feed on whole prey. They don't snack on just the muscle, or heart or liver, they eat the whole thing. A whole prey is much more reflective of natural diet.

    Whole prey, despite the inaccurate arguments about whether mice, rats, rabbit, quail or frog are nutritionally better, are basically the same at the nutrient level (for most vertebrate prey, that is), and generally meet the mineral requirements of the tegu (ie. phosphorus, calcium, trace minerals). With whole prey, there is usually little concern for meeting the calcium requirement.

    Whole prey, particularly if freshly killed and properly fed themselves, also usually meet many other nutritional needs of tegus. Vitamins and trace elements are found in fresh raw organs, and consumption of the whole prey usually insures that not only that these requirements are met but that they aren't overdosed either (as can be seen when feeding high organ content diets).

    Tegus seem to relish whole prey. They get very excited and eager to eat when presented whole prey. A healthy appetite is a good thing.

    Whole prey is quite convenient. It's a lot easier to give whole prey than to work out the dietary needs and amounts when constructing a diet from scratch.

    CONS
    In the wild, tegus don't typically consume whole prey as the majority of their diet. While they do typically eat WHOLE prey when they encounter prey, whole prey is usually only 5-30% of their average intake. There is usually much greater content of plant matter, fruits and seeds.

    In the wild, tegus don't typically consume much in the way of mammalian prey at all. The vast majority of their vertebrate prey is lizards and frogs, some birds. While at the nutritional level there isn't much difference in these, at the mechanical level there is. Rodents are covered in fur, fur is not digestible, and contrary to what some people think, fur is NOT a digestive fibre that will mobilize gut contents (A. it is too large, digestive fibre is very, very small B.digestive fibre is typically hydrophillic, fur is more hydrophobic, and C. just think of cats and furballs: if it were a digestive fibre, why is there so many medicines for helping cats mobilize furballs in their guts?). In fact, there appears to be a tight correllation between high rodent diets and lack of mobility in the digestive tract.

    Because rodents tend to be the majority (if not exclusive) material in whole prey diets, and because captive rodents tend to be overfed and therefore overweight (ie. obese), whole prey diets for tegus tend to be high fat content diets. I don't think this one needs to be explained further.

    Whole prey diets are a key source of parasites. Strict breeding and husbandry practices of the prey species will definitely help mitigate this, but not all breeders are that picky.

    Whole prey diets are convenient. If you've been paying attention, you'll have noticed this is also under the PROS, so why is it under the CONS as well? Well, I'm probably going to insult some people here. Most pet keepers are idiots and thinking is a chore to them. Promoting a convenient diet is also promoting them to not think further about not only their diet, but also other aspects of their husbandry. It's been my experience that someone who cuts corners for convenience of diet will also cut corners elsewhere. Likewise, someone who'll take the time to construct a properly balanced, varied diet is also likely to pay greater attention to husbandry.

    Whole prey is basically an addictive food. Tegus who frequently eat whole prey don't typically accept other, non-animal protein related foods (ie. they get picky). If whole prey is entirely healthy, then this isn't necessarily a concern. However, as has been stated, seeing issues with gut motility and such, having an animal willing to eat nearly anything it is presented with is clearly an advantage.

    All in all, it may seem like there are more CONS against whole prey then PROS. I'd have to admit I'm not fond of a strictly whole prey diet, but I do use whole prey as part of my feeding regime. But that's just it, I see them as a healthy PART of a diet, not to be the exclusive component of it. I've always tried to recreate the natural diet with any of my animals and usually to me this seems the better approach.

  10. #10
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    I try all kinds of fruits he only seem to like blueberries and he really loves them. What about fish in th diet mine enjoy scallops, shrimp, tilapia. Also whata bout adding a small mouse mine are very small under three inches to maybe 5 meals a weeks rather than having them have a whole bunch of mice at one time. I am always looking for more suggestions to add to tonka's diet. I love having all kinds of variety so I can have different things to offer each meal. I live next to a fishing town so I have access to all kinds of fresh that day seafood. In the short time I have had Tonka I have come to adore him every time I look at him basking or wandering around he puts a smile on my face. He is just a joy even my husband who will not touch my retiles is crazy about Tonka. I want to make sure he stays healthy so he can be around a long time. Sounds corny but I never thought I could be as crazy in love with another animal like I am with my dogs but I am.
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