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Thread: hibernation question for tupinambis

  1. #1
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    Default hibernation question for tupinambis

    I have a question for you, T:

    There is a discussion on another forum about young tegus going into hibernation and waking up with tremors and weakness symptomatic of NSPS. I know you have a lot of knowledge in this area and I was wondering if you have any thoughts on such an issue. My first impression was that it could be related to fast growth rates and high demand for calcium not being met by the diet and/or UVB right before hibernation. The symptoms are apparent when the lizard rouses and the owner is paying closer attention to the tegu.
    Laura R (FL)
    1.0.0 Colombian Tegu
    1.4.0 Argentine B&W Tegu
    1.2.0 Red Tegu
    1.2.0 B/WxRed Tegu
    1.0.0 Green Ameiva (yet another teiid)
    7 other lizards
    1 little gator
    3 FL box turtle
    1 Sulcata tortoise
    16 snakes
    5 fuzzy pets
    4 little frogs
    a bunch of creepy bugs
    and a partridge in a pear tree

  2. #2
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    It may or may not be related to fast growth rates. Not trying to say "maybe", more that in the case of captive tegus, I would guess that anywhere from 70 to 90 percent of all young tegus are hypocalcemic, whether their owners are pumping them to grow fast or not. If they're growing fast, then yes this is more likely to a big factor in being hypocalcemic. However, if if rapid growth isn't taking place (albeit, when you look at the questions posted and debates on how large such'n'such should be at so'n'so age, based on NO empirical evidence whatsoever, and how it seems to be a commonly held belief for hobbyists that an "undersized" tegu is bad, then rapid growth is likely overly common), all we need to do is look at how people feed their young tegus : a lot of invertebrates, organ meats, complaints of "my tegu won't eat that so instead I stick with crap", and it's a safe bet most of these animals are hypocalcemic. Then when they go into hibernation, their bodies have to rely on only the stores they have built up beforehand. You hear a lot of things about what elements or chemical compounds are important in living organisms (we're mostly water, without oxygen we die, etc.) but among biologists there's a frequent saying that it all comes down to calcium. It's used in the vast majority of processes that allows us to live. People have this view that it's primarily a skeletal thing, but when we look at the evolutionary history, it is clear that calcium based structural elements came about first as a need to store calcium (a relatively uncommon element in our atmosphere) and later secondarily became a skeletal support for bodies. Even now, especially with NSHP (congratulations on using this), it demonstrates the body's view of the importance of calcium: to run bodily functions first, skeletal element secondary importance. So after being in hibernation and having to rely upon body stores of calcium (that were likely low going into hibernation), it is no wonder some people are seeing muscle tremors upon emergence.

  3. #3
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    Yes, I thought you would appreciate the NSHP. I'm trying to get better about moving away from common terminology and common names.

    In college I studied cardiopulmonary sciences. The need for calcium goes much, much farther than skeletal structure. A lot of people don't realize that a lot of systemic compensation is going on way before you see skeletal deformities. And a lot of physiological changes are going on before you see any visible signs of hypocalcemia.
    Laura R (FL)
    1.0.0 Colombian Tegu
    1.4.0 Argentine B&W Tegu
    1.2.0 Red Tegu
    1.2.0 B/WxRed Tegu
    1.0.0 Green Ameiva (yet another teiid)
    7 other lizards
    1 little gator
    3 FL box turtle
    1 Sulcata tortoise
    16 snakes
    5 fuzzy pets
    4 little frogs
    a bunch of creepy bugs
    and a partridge in a pear tree

  4. #4
    Join Date
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    Earth
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    Well, to be honest, I'm seeing a number of publications also referring to NMBD (nutritional metabolic bone disease) and I'm not sure if this is just complacency (ie.let's use a term somewhat more correct but that also allows the common man some familiarity) or whether it reflects that some expressions of nutrition-related bone deformity aren't brought about by parathyroid activity. Something to look into. But it isn't about common terminology in my mind: it's about correct terminology. Metabolic bone disease means one thing to a medical professional, something different to a hobbyist, but where did the term come from? Not likely the hobbyist, however the hobbyist is trying to refer to that which the medical profession is describing, therefore the hobbyist is using it incorrectly. People often get exasperated and say "ya, but you know what I mean". Well, when it comes to specifics, a bunch of people evidently thought along this line and sent a billion dollar Mars mission slamming into the planet instead of orbitting it. The devil is in the details.

    You have a very valid point with hypocalcemia. Calcium is required for nerve conduction, muscle contraction, cellular signalling, hormone regulation, waste removal.....by the time we see physical evidence of hypocalcemia in an untrained observer, who knows what other functions have been compromised.

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