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Thread: Mbd

  1. #1
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    Default Mbd

    These might be some stupid questions, but I have never delt with MBD and I know what can cause it and what it does per say, but is there any way to like fix it? And can a tegu be born with it?? Im just curious as to if you can fix the problem before it gets severe. And also, if that can affect the tegu's weight. Like would a tegu get like really really skinny, however still eat? Or is that a different situation? Im an awful google searcher.. I couldn't find anything to answer my curiousity.. anybody ever delt with it and can answer my questions?

  2. #2
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    No question is a stupid question . If we don't ask we will not learn anything. So the more you ask the better. This is what we are here for. Yes, it can be fixed. No, Tegus don't get really skinny when they have MBD. If the MBD is at the beginning stage and it's not severe you can change it by putting some more calcium powder on all the foods that doesn't have any bones in it ( it's recommended to do this at all times ). If the MBD is sever then I would take the Tegu to the Vet to get the right dosage of the liquid calcium. The liquid calcium will be absorbed better/faster. One of our Tegu's had a MBD problem when we bought him. He had some problems walking but he still ate very well. It's different with each Tegu.
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  3. #3
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    Default Re: Mbd

    So can a tegu be born with it? Or does it develop in its life span?

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  4. #4
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    No question is a stupid question
    Oh, I disagree, I've seen many that I'd classify as stupid. You introduce yourself to someone "Hi, I'm Tina" and they reply "is your name Tina?" - that's a stupid question. But Calypso's wasn't.

    Problem is, Calypso, is in understanding all that you're asking. Most hobbyists use the term MBD incorrectly. Metabolic Bone Disease is a blanket term, a rather large list of diseases that can be quite different except in that they affect skeletal elements. This can be osteoporosis, rickets, but most of what pet hobbyists refer to is typically Nutritional Secondary Hyperparathyroidism (NSHP). Even under NSHP the causes can be numerous - predominantly it is inadequate diet with either a lack of calcium, vitamin D3, or an imbalance. However, in understanding the calcium/vitamin D3 axis we can also see that beings as the intestine, kidneys, liver and integument are critical parts of the pathways, diseases in these organs can lead to MBD. Therefore, in the case of the typical NSHP, this is a condition that develops over time, the tegu would not be born with it. On the other hand, there are genetic diseases that can disrupt the liver, kidneys and intestines and therefore the tegu would be born with MBD. In particular with regards to intestinal dysfunction, if the intestine is compromised, this can lead to interference with nutrient uptake and would therefore likely result in a skinny lizard.
    With regards to NSHP, if it is caught early enough, then the situation can readily be remedied through acute therapy and dietary adjustment, with the condition being fully reversed. However, once the bones become deformed, or if the animal grows to adulthood with low density bones, it cannot be fully reversed with current technologies. The bones will always be deformed. You can correct plasma calcium levels to ensure physiological function resumes at proper homeostasis, but you can't turn back the clock on the skeleton, it will always remain disfigured. So to directly answer your question, it can be corrected before it becomes too severe.
    However, if the condition is a result from other underlying diseases in other organs, then the situation isn't so simple. Some conditions can be mitigated with suitable therapies, but not "cured" (ie. insulin injections for diabetics is a therapy, not a cure), other conditions could be cured and reversed. It will all depend on what the ailment is. As I've stated and try to stress with hobbyists, MBD is not a one-cause-one-solution disease. It is typically NSHP, but not always.

  5. #5
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    Ok, tupinambis. You got me there. When someone asks us a question relating to their Tegu on here I don't think it's a stupid question. This is why I sad what I sad ( well wrote ). But you are right that there are some people out there that ask a duh question. It's most likely because they are not paying any attention. To be honest with you sometimes I'm one of those people that has a duh moment, too, lol.
    Rich is not how much you have, or where you are going, or what you are.Rich is who you have beside you.

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  6. #6
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    Default

    I'm not going to lie, I thought you were about to say I had a stupid question haha but thank you for not saying that haha and I never realized how complicated this thing was... Reason I am asking is because I know somebody who's tegu supposedly has this disease and I am so worried that he will lose her in the near future. She is very very skinny and he says she eats but won't gain wait. That to me sounds like a parasite problem but he says there are no parasites in her poop so he doesn't believe it. He did have a black throat monitor with the same skinny issue and I took her in and got her fat and healthy in about a week. So I'm just confused about the whole situation.. But I'm very worried. He got her when she was about 3 sheds from losing her green and he said when he got her she had a broken leg that had healed under her tail and her tail was broken in many spots toward the tip. And she had mbd. Now, I was told that mbd will only stunt her growth, or the length she will reach at adulthood. However, I am learning that is not at all the case... She is close to a year old and I'm thinking that maybe this is too late to reverse.. She is in a 6x3x3 custom cage and the whole back wall is peg board, which I know can be bad for her. Can that affect anything at all? I'm sorry this got long haha I'm just confused. And scared. He would be so heartbroken if he lost her. And I would too. She's the sweetest lizard and I'm just trying my best to help and hopefully save her.

  7. #7
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    First I'd ask why does he think there are no parasites, because he hasn't seen any first hand or because he had her checked by a vet and she tested clean?

    If the tegu has all the health issues like you state, that could be one of the reasons she's so skinny - she's using all the nutrients to try healing.

    Now, with the peg board....I'd be surprised to see if that peg board lasts any length of time if the animal is kept under proper conditions (ie. warm and humid). So I'm beginning to suspect there are some husbandry issues at hand. What is her diet and how often is she being fed?

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Mbd

    I have to take what he says because I have never actually seen her being fed other than maybe a mouse. Shes fed every wendsday and every other weekend. And I know off the bat that's a problem. He says she gets like ground meats mostly and a mouse here and there and any fruits he may have which is normally raspberries. so I know she doesn't have the proper amount of calcium as well as just straight food. I gave him packs of calcium suppliment that I know he doesn't use. So maybe this is an all around care problem?? I'm really worried. Ive tried to take her and help her many times but he wont give her up... and she has not been to the vet that I know of.

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  9. #9
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    I'm sorry I got you worried there for a minute about what I sad. Also please don't ever worry about writing a long post. The more you tell us the more we can figure out what could be going on with her. tupinambis took the words out of my mouth. I do believe that it is more of a husbandry problem. Are you by any chance ever there when she poops ? If yes, see if the poop smell very sour and not like regular poop. Most of the time when a Tegu has a parasite problem the poop will smell so sour that it will make you gag and and the hole house can smell like that lol. Hard lesson learned lol. She needs to eat some rodents at least once or twice a week. On other days some regular food as ground or solid meats, fruits and veggies. If he doesn't have much money he could give her some hard boiled eggs, chicken gizzards/hearts and liver in between the other feedings. Everything without bones needs to have some calcium powder on it. I don't want to worry/scare you. But what I'm worried about is that is she wants to go into hibernation she might not make it because she didn't eat enough before she goes into hibernation. Here is some information for you to check out if you like about parasites.

    http://www.anapsid.org/parasites1.html
    Rich is not how much you have, or where you are going, or what you are.Rich is who you have beside you.

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  10. #10
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    Ok, Calypso, from what you have now said, it is clear we have a very serious issue. To sum it up succinctly: someone has a tegu that they have no right to have. Sorry, but from what you have described, I see almost nothing but wrong and a personality not willing to change that.

    First: fed maybe twice a week. Here's the number one reason this tegu is not growing and why it is skinny. This is not a snake, it needs to be fed more often. I recommend at least every other day for an animal this size.

    Second: nutrition. Just ground meat by the sounds of it, no vitamins or minerals added in. This is a death sentence. With ground meat, vitamins and minerals MUST be added in EVERY TIME you give the ground meat. If you don't, all you are offering is protein and little else. The calcium needs to be used. Calcium is just as important to living as oxygen is, we just don't tend to keel over and die if we don't continually take in calcium because we have a huge calcium repository in our skeleton. Every physiological function that is a part of us being alive utilizes calcium. Do you know why you breathe oxygen? Because oxygen is required to produce the energy currency we call adenosine triphosphate (ATP - there are other molecules as well, but I don't think we need to go into them all). Here's the kicker - calcium is used in this process. In fact MORE calcium is used than oxygen!

    I highly suspect your friend has a tegu to have a status symbol, and not because they are interested in having a tegu as a pet. The route you've described they are taking is only going to lead down one path, and it isn't pretty. Considering what you've said about the feeding, I'm scared to ask but really feel it has to done: what about temperatures? Humidity? Hydration? Size of enclosure? Lighting? Does the tegu get any UV-B?

    I'll be right up front: I'd say your friend is neglecting this tegu. If he won't commit to doing a better job of caring for the tegu, you should convince him to surrender it to someone who actually cares.

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