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Thread: Meal Plans/Message to newcomers

  1. #1
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    Nov 2012
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    Default Meal Plans/Message to newcomers

    To start off, my question and reason for posting this thread is to ask about the different "meal plans" people have for their tegus. I already have one, but I figured I would create a thread about it. It just so happens that I came across a thread on another site though, and it serves to prove that you cannot trust what "just anyone" says online and people should pay more attention to where they get their information from. I know this site is referring to monitors and not tegus, but I'm pretty sure the same rules apply for the most part.

    http://www.reptileboards.com/threads...-meat-ok.3356/

    Do these people even have any reptiles or are they just repeating hearsay? Of course any raw meat has bacteria but last time I checked, reptiles don't cook their food in the wild! And apparently feeding whole chickens to alligators is ok, but for some reason if the chicken is in a package it has to be cooked....not to mention whole prey items are apparently THE best for sav monitors...but uncooked...so its ok to feed them raw mouse and rat meat and organs and intestines and all, but not chicken or beef that you would normally eat yourself?? It almost made me mad to read the responses on that thread and know that the person asking the question won't be taking proper care of his reptile. They went from saying NO raw meat is ever a good idea for reptiles...to saying that whole prey is the only meat that is good, to one person saying that raw meat is ok as long as it is turkey and not chicken.... grrrrr so stupid!! I wanted to contact the person, but the thread is quite old, so I figured I would share it with you guys. Also as a message to new members, the admins and the general public on this forum are VERY educated in the reptile field and they are very helpful. This forum can be trusted (like I said the admins and most of the public) but if someone posts something that is wrong or not truthful, it won't be long before an admin corrects them with hard facts and references to prove those facts. Unless people have a knowledgeable background and/or references and facts to prove themselves, the information they give you should be taken lightly and you should seek someone more professional. It is hard in the reptile world because so many people repeat hearsay and call themselves experts, but yet in real life they might have never even owned a reptile, they're just trolling online. There was one person on here who even said there was even a vet (not a very reputable one) who told him so many lies as the vet had no clue about reptiles apparently. Everything the vet said to do was completely wrong and he would have ended up with a very sick tegu.

    With that said, can someone explain to me and the general public what happens to bacteria once it is processed inside of a monitor/tegu/any other reptile? Also, does anyone have issues with feeding chicken to their tegus instead of turkey (besides it is fattier) ? What about organ meats? I am still trying to wrap my mind around the nonsense and you find on some forums and what happens when there are no admins or moderators to protect the site against trolls and ignorance.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
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    Maine
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    Default

    By the way I found the link to the thread talking about the vet...its pretty ridiculous to think that people will tell you lies to keep your money in their pockets..If the guy didn't know a thing about reptiles, all he had to do is refer this guy to a vet who does know. But instead he just fed him a bunch of lies and probably charged him pretty well for it. Information about the vet starts on page 2.

    http://www.thetegu.com/showthread.ph...bad-shed/page2

  3. #3
    Join Date
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    Abbotsford, BC
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    Default

    Bacteria - as long as the load is not too high, your tegu should tolerate most raw meats. I don't see a difference between turkey and chicken, I'm not sure that one carries more salmonella than the other. What you should be more concerned about if you are feeding raw meat is the conditions under which they were raised. Chickens raised in high-volume operations will have higher bacteria load and I would never feed those raw to my animals. If you can source your raw meat from a good, clean, small-scale operation you shouldn't have too many issues.

    I would imagine that having a healthy gut flora, among other factors, would contribute greatly to this tolerance. Wild tegus would likely carry high loads of beneficial bacteria loads in their digestive tracts but our captive counterparts may not, so it becomes more important to pay attention to where your meat comes from. You can offer Reptivite (probiotic supplement for reptiles) to help with establishing gut flora.

    As for raw vs. cooked meat, I have not read anything other than conjecture, usually stating that meat should be raw because that is what they eat in the wild. But this does not necessarily mean that they digest it more thoroughly, that would have to be studied, but unfortunately it probably won't be. I know humans have a much better time digesting cooked meat over raw, but we have evolved with fire. I would be interested in reading anything legitimate on the subject. I don't feed cooked meat of any type to my tegu or monitors but I am confident that my supply is from a good source. If you are not, then cooked meat could be an option, but again we don't know about digestion of cooked meat in lizards.

    Organ meats are definitely a good choice and should not be avoided. But again, source is very important - the liver from a high-volume operation could be loaded with toxins and should probably be avoided.

    As for what happens to bacteria in the digestive tract. If the bacteria can survive the severe conditions then it may live inside the intestines and colonize. Again, this is more likely to happen if the tegu does not have a healthy gut flora (look up competitive exclusion). If they are allowed to colonize it can lead to anything from mild stomach upset to severe foodborne illness.

    To find a good source of chicken products, look for small-scale, free-range, organic suppliers. Free-range is important because chickens can develop their own gut flora by consuming natural soil, but they won't have this benefit if they are not given access to feed outside. Also you can look for operations that use competitive exclusion (probiotic) products in their feed.

    Hope this helps.

  4. #4
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    I was told that cooked food has no nutritional value for reptiles because their bodies are set up gor processing everything raw. Yes they are omnivores like humans are, but I guess most reptiles will "starve" when fed cooked meats. They will process it enough to get it out of their system, but nothing is taken from it nutritionally.

    Also, I was told that in rare cases they can get sick from bad food...but I would not worry too much about the bacteria in raw food. What do you see wild tegus doi g in their hone country? What are they known as? Scavengers. Like crows. They eat roadkill and are seen chomping on old meat full of flies all the time. Even coyotes around where I live will turn down food that is too old, but there is a difference here. Mammals will get far more sick than any reptile will. Reptiles have been around for quite some time. A lot longer than any mammal. They are hearty animals when it comes to this stuff and their bodies can process the nastiest of things pretty easily.

    With that being said, a pwrson must also take into account the life span of their tegu. Ofcourse you will not purposely feed rotting roadkill to your tegu, and all of this contributes to the longer lifespans of tegus in captivity. Tegus that are given the kinds of food they were designed to eat is just about the healthiest thing for that tegu. Not to mention that food isnt rotting or decomposed or riddled with deadly viruses. Sure it has bacteria when raw but my rule of thumb is that if the chicken/turkey/beef/fish is good enough for me to eat, why not my tegu. Yes I want the best for my tegu, but why would food that you ingest in your own system not be good enough for your (much farther evolved and hearty) reptile? Just a thought for new owners who may be given the run-around online about what to feed and not feed their tegus. The point is to use common sense and think about what these animals go through in the wild, while at the same time taking into consideration the life span you want your tegu to have.

  5. #5
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    Yes, wild tegus are apparently scavengers and carrion-eaters so their digestive systems must be fairly tolerant to bacteria, probably either by using pH levels intolerant to the bacteria, protease enzymes that might break down proteins of the bacteria, and/or competitive exclusion from a strong, healthy gut flora, who knows why?

    I still stand by my statement that arguments for a raw food diet over a cooked food diet are speculative, even though my feelings are that raw meat would probably be shown out to be overall healthier if someone were to properly study it.

    You are right that reptiles have been here longer than mammals by around one hundred fifty million years I believe. But as far I can remember, the lineage including all modern reptiles is the same age as the lineage including all mammals or to put it another way, all modern reptiles are more closely related to each other than to the mammals (all reptile lineages older than the mammals besides the current one, Sauropsida, are extinct). In that sense reptiles, at least modern ones, have been evolving exactly as long as mammals. Both groups evolved in very different directions but began from the same 'drawing board' and it is like this for any two groups somewhere down the line.

  6. #6
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    Thanks for the info. I see the light! Haha. Just wanted to create a thread on this so people can see how there are many opinions out there. Some knowledgeable, some not so much. I was stunned by the false (speculative, yes) information on that other forum. And I do agree that we all must watch where this meat comes from. Even though it may be safe if cooked for us, it may not be safe if it is kept raw for reptiles. I'm sure tegus can handle a lot, as they are scavengers in the wild, but in order to keep a healthy tegu as a pet, why not choose healthier meats? Thanks again for the info much appreciated and I hope this clears up this topic for most people.

  7. #7
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    Hey I feel kind of cool to be referenced in this thread. Even though I'm the one that got stuck with paying that dumb vet bill. A word of advice, never go to a vet unless they say they specialize in reptiles. That sometimes even doesn't work because they will say that they specialize just so that they have your business. A little while after I went to that vet I started working at the Columbus Zoo and they pointed me in a few directions for Reptile Vets. Those are hard to come by and I would have to drive about an hour to get to one. So everyone that needs to go to a vet but doesn't know where to go I suggest going on here and asking or contact a zoo, both are great suggestions. Btw, my tegu did not die like the vet had said and he is growing like a weed. Thanks everyone.

  8. #8
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    Good to hear!! And where I live, the nearest reptile vet is roughly 4 hours away

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