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Thread: Evolution of Pets/Koi Pet Store, Edmonton, Alberta

  1. #11
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Calgary Alberta Canada
    Posts
    114

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    This has been run all over the place and TARAS is also aware of it and I believe people were trying to contact ERAS as well about it and I have personally been trying to get the spca on the phone to challange them about the lack of supported vet care for the animals who really need it too.

    Lots of people looking at ways to solve this problem but those in power don't seem to care.

  2. #12

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    For example, here in Maine there is a little know list of cage sizes required for each species, etc.
    Rick, do you happen to know of a link where I can get this information? I think that would be something great that we could present to our local government as an idea of what can be implemented.


    ps... I am posting a link to this on other sites I go too in the hopes that others may have ideas and suggestions for you!!
    Can you please send me the links to these sites that you linked this on

    Thank you for your support. There are works in progress with planning an event in which the media can come out and see the conditions that many of us have documented as well as writing local government, business licensing board, the BBB and anyone else that will hear us.

    This has been run all over the place and TARAS is also aware of it and I believe people were trying to contact ERAS as well about it and I have personally been trying to get the spca on the phone to challange them about the lack of supported vet care for the animals who really need it too.

    Lots of people looking at ways to solve this problem but those in power don't seem to care.
    I know it has Devon (Insomniac) and I have tried to post this information in as many places as we can to make people aware. Many people refuse to talk about the store mentioned because of the threat of the owner of the store suing for slander and defamation of character. I think that's the cowards way out. People need to join together and act as a group for anything to be done about the current legislation regarding the care of exotics. Nothing we have posted is misleading or false and I believe the pictures clearly state that.




    If anyone is willing to send a letter to our city mayor in regards to this and to try and help us make a change that would be greatly appreciated. Though it is asked that you send a mature and educated letter as our Mayor is someone that will listen when an issue is brought to his attention.

    His contact info is:

    Mayor Stephen Mandel
    2nd Floor, City Hall
    1 Sir Winston Churchill Square
    Edmonton, AB
    T5J 2R7

    Or you can go to this link and send him an email:

    http://www.edmonton.ca/portal/server...e+to+mayor.htm


    If you're from Edmonton, please also feel free to contact your city representative, and for other Canadians your local MP.

    In you letter you need to ask for the city of Edmonton and the province (Alberta) to take this seriously, and the Canadian criminal code seriously...and it doesn't hurt to say that you'll be refraining from visiting Edmonton in the future until you're sure the city takes the treatment of its animals seriously.

    Also state that the store is obviously breaking two sections of the criminal code. The code states:

    446. (1) Every one commits an offence who

    (a) wilfully causes or, being the owner, wilfully permits to be caused unnecessary pain, suffering or injury to an animal or a bird;

    (c) being the owner or the person having the custody or control of a domestic animal or a bird or an animal or a bird wild by nature that is in captivity, abandons it in distress or wilfully neglects or fails to provide suitable and adequate food, water, shelter and care for it;


    These lizards are in obvious distress and their basic needs are neglected.

    Provide proof on how these needs are being neglected, feel free to use the photos I have posted. And also a conclusion as what you would like to see done. If you happen to live in a city that has good laws governing the the requirements of pet stores to provide proper care of these animals please provide that information in the letter for our government to review. There more experienced and knowledgeable people we have make contact, there closer we are to a step in the right direction.


    Thank you all for your time and concern with this matter

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Mesa, Arizona
    Posts
    62

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    ps... I am posting a link to this on other sites I go too in the hopes that others may have ideas and suggestions for you!!
    Can you please send me the links to these sites that you linked this on

    [/quote]

    These are the couple that I posted on, plus on my "myspace" bulletins and a private group that I belong too, full of reptile keepers.

    http://www.sloanmonster.com/forums/index.php

    http://www.dragontank.com/main/index.php
    ~~ Christina ~~

    0.0.1 Argentine B/W Tegu
    0.0.1 tailess Green Iquana
    1.2 Bearded Dragons
    2.2.3 AZ. Banded Geckos
    1.0 Dumerills Monitor
    1.0 Brazilian Rainbow Boa
    0.0.7 AZ Bark Scorpions
    1.0 Desert Hairy Scorpion

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Earth
    Posts
    1,233

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    Reading this post really choked me up as it has some deeply personal connections. I used to work this pet shop about 15 years ago, although thankfully it was under different ownership then and run with much better protocols. Back then we were reputed to be one of the best pet shops in Edmonton and had some highly esteemed customers (John Acorn the Nature Nut and Rick Hansen to name the more famous), how far it has fallen. :( What saddens me the most is some of those animals I know personally and were never in those conditions while under my care. The macaw you speak of is named Frodo, and he's unfortunately had a rough life. When he came to us as a hand-raised fledgeling in 1992 (I think) from a breeder, he had hepatitis. We had to give him multiple daily shots which he hated, and although we cured him, it wound up causing some psychological damage. He wound up being scared of everyone in the shop except for me, as I refused to give him his shots on the grounds that as a sick fledgeling he needed to trust someone and not be completely neurotic. Unfortunately, it had the effect that he sort of imprinted on me and when I left the shop, he lost a lot of weight and was never in the same shape. I had went back to visit that shop about 2 years ago and was thoroughly disgusted with what I saw. Frodo was in deplorable shape, had become a feather picker and was clearly intimidated by people. It brought tears to my eyes that he still remembered me, and what the store owner told me then shocked me. She had claimed that the shape he was in was only due to the fact that she'd been trying to breed "her".
    A pair of the boas are also from around when I was there, I had raised them from hatchlings in the store. It sickened me to leave a lot of those animals at the store, but when you're only earning $5/hr, it doesn't leave one much room to purchase animals the shop was selling for thousands.

    There are a lot of problems with the shop, and it will be hard to bring about a meaningful, humane change. First and most importantly is the current owner. She's one of those people that "has a reputation" and knows more than anyone else about caring properly for animals because she's been doing it all her life. She doesn't care to listen to anyone else's input, and believes in her heart that she is actually caring for them better than anyone else could. I tried bringing up the histories of some of the animals and what she should do to improve things and she simply thought I had no insight to offer. I've since checked in with some of the people we used to do business with about their business transactions with her and found that essentially she's not upkeeping her bills either. I gather several businesses have had to sue her to get money they were due. Hopefully this is a sign she won't be in business long (although who knows what her actual personal financial situation is).

    There is also the question of whether a suitable vet could/would step in and pass a proper judgement on the conditions in there. Edmonton has a number of vets that claim to be herpetologically experienced, but which are clearly woefully ignorant. There was one that had (at that time) the contract to work with the SPCA animals, and had performed surgery on a pair of tokay geckos in order to remove their venom glands, an operation that is both unnecessary (as tokays do not have venom glands) and is considered illegal in the province of Alberta (Alberta passed certain laws that considered such surgeries as mutilation not only to protect the animals but also to prevent people simply from owning devenomed animals). Another vet with whom the shop at that time had a contract with handed out care pamphlets he had written up himself on the proper nutrition of iguanas: he claimed that a healthy diet should consist of half vegetation and half animal protein, and that a tablespoon of cat food per week was sufficient (cat food?!?!? did that also mean iguanas only needed to eat 2 tablespoons of food per week?!?!?). There are a lot of vets that claim to be experienced and knowledgeable, the truth is another matter.

    Lastly is also the political environment in Alberta. Over the past 3 decades Alberta has seen reversal after reversal of regulations concerning pets. For a while, only certain things were banned, then they passed regulations in 1988-89 that basically banned nearly everything, although allowed current keepers to maintain their charges under a grandfather clause. Alberta Fish & Wildlife soon learned that there were far more exotics in the province than they had the manpower to deal with in simply registering them and issuing permits. Didn't take that long before the regulations were completely sacked, opening the door for anybody to own anything, and sure enough, there quickly was people taking advantage of the loss of regulations and getting things like tigers and bears. This caused yet another swing in opinion and another clamp down on pets ensued. Not that I don't totally agree that this pet shop needs to be shut down, but be careful of what action you do take, you may find it detrimental to your own interests in the end. The other aspect of the political climate that is hard to get around is the fact that Alberta is highly influenced by opinions governing agriculture. Any regulations passed in regards to animals in general is going to affect this highly important sector of the economy, and there is a LOT of resistence from farmers and ranchers against laws that make their jobs more difficult. As has already been stated, the laws considering exotics, particularly herps and fish are quite vague. I'm no longer familiar with the provincial statutes, but herps and fish used to fall under the same regulations as plants.

    I urge caution in what manner of action you choose to take. Whereas I want to see this shop shut down ASAP and the abuse of these animals stopped, calling on the mayor to do something more likely than not will create a situation you do NOT want. Municipalities across Canada are falling to the influence of idealists and outright banning all exotics. Definitely bring pressure upon the SPCA as much as you can (although their reluctance to do anything is disheartening, I remember they used to get in an uproar over pet shops selling puppies with worms). Contact all pet hobbyist clubs in the area to make people more aware (don't stop at ERAS and TARAS, take it to the Edmonton Aquarium Club, the Canadian Kennel Club, all others, they may not understand the situation with respect to herps and opening their eyes may bring around a more general boycott). Another route you may wish to check in with is their business partners. I know many have stopped doing business with her, but writing letters to Rolph C. Hagen and other more commercial pet supply wholesalers and objecting to them over doing business with someone so obviously detrimental to the industry may bring about more surgical influence. Lodge a complaint with the owners of the strip mall where she conducts her business. If they hear enough complaints maybe they'd be willing to terminate her lease. Maybe appealing to someone more public might also bare better results. Although John Acorn doesn't shop there anymore, he's very public, has a show, and may be interested in the animals' plight there to bring about a change. He's a sessional instructor at the University of Alberta and shouldn't be that hard to get ahold of.

    I feel so sorry for Frodo and all the others.....

  5. #15

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    this reminds me of our petstore (the situation is now rectified there since a highschool girl i know started working there) dead anoles, half dead anoles, a shnider skink with MANY crooks in his tail obviously MBD.

    a leo with maybe fifty crix in her tank.... there were likw 10 skinks of different speicies piled up SMALL sized heat rock. when i inquired about anther rock for them the lady replied " they shouldn't be on there too long anyways or they will burn themselves" AHHHH! and a BEATUFUL monkey tailed skink in a cage WAY up in the air all the way at the top of the housing unit. probably 30 or more poops in the tank and i think that they may have been feeding it egg or something judging on the mess in there it was FILTHY! They said it was the store pet and that it was 15 years old. Now this WAS a nice pet shop, but the owner is getting old and minus the one bearded dragon girl, the staff is NASTY. grumpy 50 year old women who could give a %$#@ less.

    Not to mention the reptile cages are b.ocked with hermit crab supplies, a whole shelving unit of them that must be moved into the eisle in order to look at the reps.

    Seriously looking at that little tegu made me cry. i imagine my boy who just got new 66'' x 24'' tank and there that one is sharing a tank with a HUGE iggy. someone should get a warm cotton ball and soak her eyes or SOMETHING! how much do they want for it?? Looks like mouth rot too.... i wouldn't be surprised if it's dead already. For it's sake, i never thought i would have to say this... i hope it IS already dead, put it to peace. :( :( :( :(


    It's real sad, if ya'll need help back here from the states.... just say so, i want that tegu BAD she is ADORABLE....

  6. #16

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    I contacted the ASPCA based in New York....

    good luck Sedated!

    -j

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Lorain,Ohio
    Posts
    66

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    For the love of everything holy and sacred.... I am completely disgusted im sorry but i would definantly have reacted angrily if I had been the one who walked in there. I commend you for ur patience but i would have went completely nuts. someone needs to do something.

  8. #18

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    I've been in there before so I knew the conditions of the store before hand. Us going in there this time was strictly a picture taking mission. Yelling at the owner and trying to reason with her has not worked in the past and certainly would not do much more than have us thrown out. Instead we went in acted "dumb" and took as many pictures as we could before being noticed. Our main purpose was to take these pictures and post them in hopes that it would anger people enough for action to be taken...and it most certainly has.

    If you would like to read more information on what is being done feel free to check out some of the other threads we have made:

    http://www.reptilescanada.com/forums...1&page=5&pp=15

    http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...66&page=1&pp=5

    I'm ecstatic to see the reaction that this has caused in people from around North America, as well as to see so many people taking action. It's definitely a great thing when everyone comes together to have a situation fixed.

    There it an Edmonton Reptile Society meeting tonight in which this issue will be discussed yet again...I'll be sure to update you all on what was said.

  9. #19

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    http://www.evolutionofpets.com/ here is the site for the store, nice looking skate shop next door too....

  10. #20

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    Well good news...we've got the media's attention!!!

    They've requested an interview with ther persons that took the photos! They will also come down to our picketing area on sunday to do a follow up on the store

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