Savanna Monitor "puppies"

[Grimlock]

just ignore this lady, she is a crackpot. as long as she takes good care of her monitors i guess thats all that matters. no one takes her attempts at converting monitors into lap dogs seriously. she is going to end up with a badly bitten face one day, but that is her own problem.

[Nero557]

wow (towards the whole post), i didn't even watch the video, but from what i read on the post... yeah, i'm speechless. One, we could ALL go about this disagreement in a whole different way. Calling eachother names and what not is just childish. This could have been gone about in a totally more mature way. Come on guys... Anyways, back to the topic on hand. I'm not going to call anyone stupid, I'm just going to post my opinion from my experiences, that is all. I used to hand feed my sav, and now that he is 4ft plus, whenever my hand comes near his cage, he assumes its food. I have been bitten and it does not feel good, i got 6 stitches. this was just a nip, but it took a good size chuck outta my finger (ring finger) I couldn't even imagine the pain from a full on bite. In the wild they eat land snails which are about 5-6in in diameter and the shells are as hard as rocks (literally) savannahs bite right through the shells and get at the snails, without a problem. So IMO I wouldn't suggest feeding by hand, it's like playing with fire, you are bound to get burned. IMO. Please everyone, lets try to keep this site a little more mature and civil. I'm not trying to make any enemies so please don't think i'm picking on anyone. Thanks.

[mike]

Well, I said you were feeding it cooked chicken because you never said it wasn't, even as many people criticized you on feeding cooked chicken. On YouTube, your comment (deleted for some reason) said something like, "Cooked chicken? Are you sure it wasn't pizza or tofu?" And lots of people seemed to recognize it as cooked chicken.
I say it "bites her" because it looks like it sure looks like it did....at 35-37, if it is not a bite, what is it? Sorry if it wasn't a bite...though it looked like one to me.
About the "picky, smelly, attack trained sav", it's not exactly attack-trained, but it does associate a pair of tongs with food, and it WILL bite it very hard lol.
About your comment on me bashing Rick's Tegu video.....I would never DREAM of bashing that. That was the cutest, most heartwarming thing ever, and it helped me decide in getting a Tegu.
If it isn't cooked chicken, please tell me what it is. I really want to know. I'm pretty sure it isn't whole food though, what monitors should be eating.

I just don't agree with what you are doing here, and a monitor that does not have a basking spot etc can't be healthy. Perhaps I am completely wrong, and you only take them out to play. Perhaps you have a cage with ideal temps, humidity, etc. You nailed me on one thing. I would not expect you to come here. I started this thread to see other people's opinions on this, to see how many agreed or disagreed on what you were doing. I went on your site and saw the log about how you were almost drowning a monitor and "being its savior". Partly because of this, I did not think you were taking very good care of these savs. But, hey, nobody is going to stop you, and I understand you have been attacked on other forums, so I will stop here. I had no intentions of this forum getting hectic like this.

PS. I think I will just wait for the videos....not send you a camera lol.

[danceswithsavs]

Well, I said you were feeding it cooked chicken because you never said it wasn't, even as many people criticized you on feeding cooked chicken.

second hand information is a lot like second hand food. not very good to have it in your mouth.
Of course i never told you it wasn't cooked chicken. i also did not tell you it wasn't bean curd, pizza or human remains. i never even heard of you before you posted this thread.

About the "picky, smelly, attack trained sav", it's not exactly attack-trained, but it does associate a pair of tongs with food, and it WILL bite it very hard lol.

i apologise for the snideness of my remark. i see it wasn't beneath me do make it but i can't promise to mend my ways. i'll make an effort. If reasonableness should ever one day become the standard for discussions on this topic, i'll be the first in line for that. All i ever wanted was that, but i was shocked, angry and ready to fight when confronted with the huge negative reaction and the logical fallacies, lies, rumor mongering and gang-bashing. I still am.

If it isn't cooked chicken, please tell me what it is. I really want to know. I'm pretty sure it isn't whole food though, what monitors should be eating.

As there is precious little objective data to establish 'the ideal diet' or 'the ideal conditions', there are a number of varied and conflicting ideas on the topic. IMO, the objective criteria by which to judge are growth rates, longevity and reproductive success.
If you have no quibble that the savs appear healthy, confident, active and vigorous, then the proof will only be available some time in the future. If they breed and live long, then we will know something about whether i am feeding them well or not.
Here is the plot of their growth curves since i had them. Day zero is the day i got them- they were already some months old then.

Objective data is needed. Anecdotes are not sufficient to make sound judgements. Please post the growth curves of your animal so we can compare. If yours are growing better, then i'd like your advice. If mine are growing better, then perhaps i'd like to know what you are doing so i can avoid it. First hand information only, please, not hearsay or anecdote.
The food you see in the videos is cricket omelette. It consists of one egg, 35g crix and 2 tablespoons oatmeal. i know this will be grist for the mill of my critics; so be it.

Perhaps you have a cage with ideal temps, humidity, etc. You nailed me on one thing.

I do not have them in a cage at all. They are being treated as pets and they are responding accordingly, as is shown in the vids. There is no data to show that they need a specific humidity to thrive, while there are conflicting views on whether they need special levels at all, so long as they have a handy bath.
Here are some temperature data on my savs. You can see the temps that they keep themselves at. I go by that. If they demonstrate a tendency to maintain a certain range of temps, that's what i'll take as suitable unless there is some objective data to suggest they don't know wtf they want. Feel free to post your own data- we will all learn something important if you do.Did you notice that they generate some heat of their own?

I went on your site and saw the log about how you were almost drowning a monitor and "being its savior". Partly because of this, I did not think you were taking very good care of these savs.

Did you really go to my site, as you claim? You may find my site here and be the very first of my critics to actually get the information i put there first hand:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&c...or&btnG=Search
Yes, i put the google url to show just how easy it is for anybody who wants the first hand information to find it. How is it that such passionate objections are justified by hearsay? Yes, i put an angry monitor in a bathtub of water and yes, the water was over his head. That was Buzzy. He is the star of the first 3 vids. If it damaged him in any way to be put in the bath, he's not giving any sign of it. I just know better than to be the focus of an angry monitor. Why he was angry i do not know. Why he likes me i do know. The growth data show that he had a sudden surge in growth after that bath, whereas he was not growing before that.
The pizza rumour, drowning, animal abuse stuff thrown at me is symptomatic of a hysterical agenda i may not completely understand but i do have some thoughts on the matter which can be found when you go to my site. Rumours are propagated by people like you who do not get the first hand information. They grow in proportion to the ignorance of the participating mob. You have made your contribution. That's not decent.

A better way would have been for you to find my site, read what i wrote and then, if you have some condemnation- at least it wouldn't be completely baseless, whether it's right or wrong.

So post your data! Hard data is vital to making any judgments and there just isn't enough of it. Until there is, the topic is open to question- and asking those questions is called science. Judgements on the basis of hearsay or anecdote is called bias.

Your decision, now, to wait for the vids is very wise. Just as i will wait for reproductive success to half-settle the matter. But there is only one way to find out anything and that is to experiment. Reality will be the final arbiter on any dispute. We only know that at least one of us is wrong.
Raging against the experiment can only prevent anybody from ever knowing. (see the wonderful quote from rehabralphy who doesn't quite get that it cuts 2 ways)

[RehabRalphy]

You just typed all that for no reason.

I still wont justify it...

Its all extraneous examples. I can pull one too. How about I go feed my 20 foot Burmese python a rat thats hanging from my mouth. But he'll learn to know that its ok. I'll put a graph up stating why I can do this.

[reptileking]

Yes, i put an angry monitor in a bathtub of water and yes, the water was over his head. That was Buzzy. He is the star of the first 3 vids. If it damaged him in any way to be put in the bath, he's not giving any sign of it. I just know better than to be the focus of an angry monitor. Why he was angry i do not know. Why he likes me i do know. The growth data show that he had a sudden surge in growth after that bath, whereas he was not growing before that.

Now I have not seen the video and dont care too. I dont care too much about this thread except for the whole forcing an animal under water. I dont think that you can say that the water was over his head like there wasnt a problem. You MADE the water over his head. You were in the process of drowning this animal. Whether the final out come was a drowned, dead animal or not, you were still in the process of drowning him. How can you say you love your animals? Reptiles are not Pets and you are not treating them as a pet if they were. The definition of a pet is any domesticated or tamed animal that is kept as a companion and cared for affectionately. (www.dictionary.com). Reptiles are not pets for the reason they are not domesticated (domesticated defined as tame). And if they were your "pets" as you state, then they would be cared for affectionately. Which forcing the animals head under water is not affection.

[danceswithsavs]

Now I have not seen the video and dont care too.

i'd say thanks for prefacing all your remarks with an admission that you know nothing about it and refuse to make the necessary effort to click on a link to find out what is what. But i'm very interested in why you have anything at all to say since you admit you haven't got any first hand information. I'm also interested in the nature of your prejudice that you propose to adjudicate an issue on which you confess ignorance and a desire to maintain that ignorance.

You were in the process of drowning this animal. Whether the final out come was a drowned, dead animal or not, you were still in the process of drowning him.

I see from your definition of 'domestication' that you are aware of the dictionary. Why not look up the word 'drown' now?

Perhaps a bit of demagoguery and propaganda may enliven your forum and you can achieve the goal of rousing the rabble for a lynching. Is this your goal?
If that is the case, i'll have no problem leaving the forum and deprive you of the information i produce at my expense through my diligent effort.

Reptiles are not Pets

If this is the premise under which you keep your specimens, it should be no surprise that you are unaware of their potential. It should also be no surprise that you don't have such friendly animals as mine demonstrably are. This disqualifies you from giving any advice to someone who is successful with rearing his savs in a manner that disproves your premise.

Which forcing the animals head under water is not affection.

To imply that i hold an animal's head under water is purest slander. It is false and it is deliberately false and it is deliberately invented by you in your self confessed ignorance and put forward on a public forum as truth. You are not only ignorant; you are a vicious liar as well.

I'll have no problem leaving a forum which is populated with vicious liars such as yourself. Do you wish to be the one to claim credit for disgusting me so completely i reject the entire forum, reptile.king?

[RehabRalphy]

Now I have not seen the video and dont care too.

i'd say thanks for prefacing all your remarks with an admission that you know nothing about it and refuse to make the necessary effort to click on a link to find out what is what. But i'm very interested in why you have anything at all to say since you admit you haven't got any first hand information. I'm also interested in the nature of your prejudice that you propose to adjudicate an issue on which you confess ignorance and a desire to maintain that ignorance.

You were in the process of drowning this animal. Whether the final out come was a drowned, dead animal or not, you were still in the process of drowning him.

I see from your definition of 'domestication' that you are aware of the dictionary. Why not look up the word 'drown' now?

Perhaps a bit of demagoguery and propaganda may enliven your forum and you can achieve the goal of rousing the rabble for a lynching. Is this your goal?
If that is the case, i'll have no problem leaving the forum and deprive you of the information i produce at my expense through my diligent effort.

Reptiles are not Pets

If this is the premise under which you keep your specimens, it should be no surprise that you are unaware of their potential. It should also be no surprise that you don't have such friendly animals as mine demonstrably are. This disqualifies you from giving any advice to someone who is successful with rearing his savs in a manner that disproves your premise.

Which forcing the animals head under water is not affection.

To imply that i hold an animal's head under water is purest slander. It is false and it is deliberately false and it is deliberately invented by you in your self confessed ignorance and put forward on a public forum as truth. You are not only ignorant; you are a vicious liar as well.

I'll have no problem leaving a forum which is populated with vicious liars such as yourself. Do you wish to be the one to claim credit for disgusting me so completely i reject the entire forum, reptile.king?

-edited by RehabRalphy-

[JeCh]

I think the real problem with this movie was that the song was annoying and horrible in this context.

will you guys chill.. everything thats supposed to happen will happen. If dances is doing something wrong then something bad will happen out of this. If it works fine for them then it'll be fine. Maybe if you think its a bad idea you shouldn't try it. But most of you are correct, something potentially dangerous shouldn't be provoked like this. Everyone gets what they deserve.

I don't want any part in any fight.

- JeCh

[reptileking]

I posted my original statement as a response to you holding your animal underwater, which i see as animal abuse. My first hand info was from what you said. I believe I even quoted it in my original post!?! I could be wrong though.

Drown: to kill by submerging under water or other liquid.
Synonyms: deluge, engulf, submerge, drench, soak

So you were in the process of killing your animal by submerging it under water. I think you just helped prove my point!

Actually, all my animals will tolerate my handling with the exception of an adult iguana that I just rescued 2 weeks ago. But when she is mean, you dont see me "submerging her under water".

Please let me know if I am wrong, but cant monitors swim or atleast float? So if you put them in water, they will swim and stay on top of the water. Now in order for the water to be over his head, there has to be pressure on top of him in order for his head to be under water.

You can leave if you want. I can careless either way. I just think it is horrible for one to treat an animal they say they love this way. I am sure my iguana would become as you state it "tame" if I put her in a tub of water and the water was over her head.