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Thread: Has anybody seen a Col. and Arg. TEGU X? Is it possible?

  1. #21
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    Corbin, Ky
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    The same question could be asked of mating a monitor and a tegu.

    We could see just how close that convergent evolution was



    I dunno much about Tegus, and I am certainly no expert of reptiles, however, I would guess that a Columbian and Argentine tegu could be crossed. Like someone said above me, the genes must match from each species.

    For example, humans have 46 chromosomes. Upon inspection you might think that an ape and a human could mate but we cannot because apes only have like 30 something. (I'm no geneticist either :( )

    However, if the number of chromosomes are very similar, a hybrid can still happen, but the offspring will most likely be sterile. This would most likely be the case for Tegus since there seem to be no hybrids found in the wild.

    Courtesy of Wikipedia:
    * Dog hybrids are crosses between different breeds and are often bred selectively.
    * Hybrid Iguana is single cross hybrid, result of natural inbreeding from male marine iguana and female land Iguana since late 2000s.
    * Equid hybrids
    o Mule, a cross of female horse and a male donkey.
    o Hinny, a cross between a female donkey and a male horse. Mule and Hinny are examples of reciprocal hybrids.
    o Zebroids
    + Zeedonk or Zonkey, a zebra/donkey cross.
    + Zorse, a zebra/horse cross
    + Zony or Zetland, a zebra/pony cross ("zony" is a generic term; "zetland" is specifically a hybrid of the Shetland pony breed with a zebra)
    * Bovid hybrids
    o Dzo, zo or yakow; a cross between a domestic cow/bull and a yak.
    o Beefalo, a cross of an American Bison and a domestic cow. This is a fertile breed; this along with genetic evidence has caused them to be recently reclassified into the same genus, Bos.
    o Zubron, a hybrid between Wisent (European Bison) and domestic cow.
    * Sheep-goat hybrids, such as the The Toast of Botswana.
    * Ursid hybrids, such as the Grizzly-polar bear hybrid, occur between black bears, brown bears, Kodiak and polar bears.
    * Felid hybrids
    o Savannah cats are the hybrid cross between an African serval cat and a Domestic cat
    o A hybrid between a Bengal tiger and a Siberian tiger is an example of an intra-specific hybrid.
    o Ligers and Tigons (crosses between a Lion and a Tiger) and other Panthera hybrids such as the Lijagulep. Various other wild cat crosses are known involving the Lynx, Bobcat, Leopard, Serval, etc.
    o Bengal cat, a cross between the Asian Leopard cat and the domestic cat, one of many hybrids between the domestic cat and wild cat species. The domestic cat, African wild cat and European wildcat may be considered variant populations of the same species (Felis silvestris), making such crosses non-hybrids.
    * Fertile Canid hybrids occur between coyotes, wolves, dingoes, jackals and domestic dogs.
    * Hybrids between Black Rhinos & White Rhinos have been recognized.
    * Hybrids between spotted owls and barred owls
    * Cama, a cross between a Camel and a Llama, also an intergeneric hybrid.
    * Wolphin, a fertile but very rare cross between a False Killer Whale and a Bottlenose Dolphin.
    * A fertile cross between an albino King Snake and an albino Corn Snake.
    * The Wurdmann's heron, a cross of the white heron and the great blue heron.
    * At Chester Zoo in the United Kingdom, a cross between African elephant (male) and Asian elephant (female). The male calf was named Motty. It died of gut infection after twelve days.
    * Cagebird breeders sometimes breed hybrids between species of finch, such as Goldfinch x Canary. These birds are known as Mules.
    * Gamebird hybrids, hybrids between gamebirds and domestic fowl, including Chickens, Guineafowl and Peafowl, interfamilial hybrids.
    * Numerous Macaw hybrids are also known.
    * Red Kite x Black Kite: 5 bred unintentionally at a falconry center in England. (It is reported that the black kite (the male) refused female black kites but mated with two female red kites.)
    * Hybridization between the endemic Cuban Crocodile (Crocodilus rhombifer) and the widely distributed American Crocodile (Crocodilus acutus) is causing conservation problems for the former species as a threat to is genetic integrity. [2]
    * Blood parrot cichlid, which is probably created by crossing a Gold Severum and a Midas Cichlid or Red Devil Cichlid

    Hybrids should not be confused with chimaeras such as the chimera between sheep and goat known as the geep. Wider interspecific hybrids can be made via in vitro fertilization or somatic hybridization, however the resulting cells are not able to develop into a full organism. An example of interspecific hybrid cell lines is the humster (hamster x human) cells.



    Also from Wikipedia:
    A number of conditions exist that limit the success of hybridization, the most obvious is great genetic diversity between most species. But in animals and plants that are more closely related hybridization barriers include morphological differences, differing times of fertility, mating behaviors and cues, physiological rejection of sperm cells or the developing embryo


    I have been wondering this for a while also, if someone has more information I would be very grateful for the knowledge! Perhaps it would be possible to create very docile golds, or large golds, or maybe a gold/black/white AND blue tegu
    0.0.1 Columbian Gold Tegu
    0.1.0 Lavender Corn
    More on the way each paycheck!

  2. #22
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    You are somewhat mistaken on what lets animals breed together. For example, human-ape hybrids are indeed possible, zygotes exits in laboratories.

    Horses and donkey can mate. In this case, the offspring are usually infertile, because, yes, the alleles do not completely match up. BUT NOT ALWAYS - occaisionally a kind of genetic trick occurs - which will allow 'grandchildren'. The grandchildren are not mixed, however. Instead these sports are actually %100 horse (or donkey - I admit that I forget the precise details of how it works, very embarrassing).

    So - physical incompatibilities can be overcome by fertilizing in vitro. It is possible, it happens. If the same number of chromosomes are present in both species that can help, but it's not a dealbreaker either way.

    You can make predictions based on studying the genomes of both, but even today, in the final analysis, we won't know until we try.

    As for why somebody would want to - well... what if you could breed a small lizard with the temperament of a B&W?

    Certain animal families are very conservative genetically - like felines. It seems that all felines can interbreed. Certainly all of the big cats can interbreed - even Jaguars with African species, that have been separated geographically for a very long time. Also, all of the small cats can interbreed. Canines are also conservative - dogs, wolves, jackals coyotes, and at least some foxes are compatible. Chimpanzee species are also conservative - gorillas, chimps, bonobos all crossable (they have a very conservative phenotype as well).

    There are some reptile species that are considered to be closely related, even though they have some pretty big physical differences. Jackson's and Johnston's chameleons are considered to be closely related. I always wondered if they would crossbreed. And if they did, would the offspring lay eggs or not?

    One further consideration - the offspring of a cross is not necessarily going to have a phenotype that is a median of the parents. Completely new traits can appear. The offspring of lions and tigers tend to be much larger than either of the parents (at least in one of the crosses). Ligers are NOT the same as Tigons in appearance.

    Quote Originally Posted by LeNoir
    The same question could be asked of mating a monitor and a tegu.

    We could see just how close that convergent evolution was



    I dunno much about Tegus, and I am certainly no expert of reptiles, however, I would guess that a Columbian and Argentine tegu could be crossed. Like someone said above me, the genes must match from each species.

    For example, humans have 46 chromosomes. Upon inspection you might think that an ape and a human could mate but we cannot because apes only have like 30 something. (I'm no geneticist either :( )

    However, if the number of chromosomes are very similar, a hybrid can still happen, but the offspring will most likely be sterile. This would most likely be the case for Tegus since there seem to be no hybrids found in the wild.

    Courtesy of Wikipedia:
    * Dog hybrids are crosses between different breeds and are often bred selectively.
    * Hybrid Iguana is single cross hybrid, result of natural inbreeding from male marine iguana and female land Iguana since late 2000s.
    * Equid hybrids
    o Mule, a cross of female horse and a male donkey.
    o Hinny, a cross between a female donkey and a male horse. Mule and Hinny are examples of reciprocal hybrids.
    o Zebroids
    + Zeedonk or Zonkey, a zebra/donkey cross.
    + Zorse, a zebra/horse cross
    + Zony or Zetland, a zebra/pony cross ("zony" is a generic term; "zetland" is specifically a hybrid of the Shetland pony breed with a zebra)
    * Bovid hybrids
    o Dzo, zo or yakow; a cross between a domestic cow/bull and a yak.
    o Beefalo, a cross of an American Bison and a domestic cow. This is a fertile breed; this along with genetic evidence has caused them to be recently reclassified into the same genus, Bos.
    o Zubron, a hybrid between Wisent (European Bison) and domestic cow.
    * Sheep-goat hybrids, such as the The Toast of Botswana.
    * Ursid hybrids, such as the Grizzly-polar bear hybrid, occur between black bears, brown bears, Kodiak and polar bears.
    * Felid hybrids
    o Savannah cats are the hybrid cross between an African serval cat and a Domestic cat
    o A hybrid between a Bengal tiger and a Siberian tiger is an example of an intra-specific hybrid.
    o Ligers and Tigons (crosses between a Lion and a Tiger) and other Panthera hybrids such as the Lijagulep. Various other wild cat crosses are known involving the Lynx, Bobcat, Leopard, Serval, etc.
    o Bengal cat, a cross between the Asian Leopard cat and the domestic cat, one of many hybrids between the domestic cat and wild cat species. The domestic cat, African wild cat and European wildcat may be considered variant populations of the same species (Felis silvestris), making such crosses non-hybrids.
    * Fertile Canid hybrids occur between coyotes, wolves, dingoes, jackals and domestic dogs.
    * Hybrids between Black Rhinos & White Rhinos have been recognized.
    * Hybrids between spotted owls and barred owls
    * Cama, a cross between a Camel and a Llama, also an intergeneric hybrid.
    * Wolphin, a fertile but very rare cross between a False Killer Whale and a Bottlenose Dolphin.
    * A fertile cross between an albino King Snake and an albino Corn Snake.
    * The Wurdmann's heron, a cross of the white heron and the great blue heron.
    * At Chester Zoo in the United Kingdom, a cross between African elephant (male) and Asian elephant (female). The male calf was named Motty. It died of gut infection after twelve days.
    * Cagebird breeders sometimes breed hybrids between species of finch, such as Goldfinch x Canary. These birds are known as Mules.
    * Gamebird hybrids, hybrids between gamebirds and domestic fowl, including Chickens, Guineafowl and Peafowl, interfamilial hybrids.
    * Numerous Macaw hybrids are also known.
    * Red Kite x Black Kite: 5 bred unintentionally at a falconry center in England. (It is reported that the black kite (the male) refused female black kites but mated with two female red kites.)
    * Hybridization between the endemic Cuban Crocodile (Crocodilus rhombifer) and the widely distributed American Crocodile (Crocodilus acutus) is causing conservation problems for the former species as a threat to is genetic integrity. [2]
    * Blood parrot cichlid, which is probably created by crossing a Gold Severum and a Midas Cichlid or Red Devil Cichlid

    Hybrids should not be confused with chimaeras such as the chimera between sheep and goat known as the geep. Wider interspecific hybrids can be made via in vitro fertilization or somatic hybridization, however the resulting cells are not able to develop into a full organism. An example of interspecific hybrid cell lines is the humster (hamster x human) cells.



    Also from Wikipedia:
    A number of conditions exist that limit the success of hybridization, the most obvious is great genetic diversity between most species. But in animals and plants that are more closely related hybridization barriers include morphological differences, differing times of fertility, mating behaviors and cues, physiological rejection of sperm cells or the developing embryo


    I have been wondering this for a while also, if someone has more information I would be very grateful for the knowledge! Perhaps it would be possible to create very docile golds, or large golds, or maybe a gold/black/white AND blue tegu

  3. #23

    Default

    ouch, my brain....i've read too much
    1.1.0 Arg B/W Tegu Joker n Groxy
    1.0.0 Australian Water Dragon "Spyro"
    1.0.0 Red Eared Slider "Turdy"
    0.0.0 White Dwarf Hamster "MiMi" R.I.P.
    1.1.0 Black&Albino Kingsnakes "Pearl & Hannibal"

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    175

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    i agree with wolrdeater.

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    296

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alek
    They have crossed milks and corns

    Boas and pythons
    But why? It's like the people that cross breed dog breeds. Why would you do that? Do these people have any idea how long it took to breed some of these dogs to be what they are today? Probably not.

    People are cross breeding raptors as well. Ferruginous hawks, and red tails, peregrine falcons with Gyrs, merlins, prairies....I hate it personally. It muddles things up, and makes them usually much worse.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Central FL
    Posts
    4,349

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    Many people are aware of the work involved in creating a dog breed. Many breeds came from bringing various breeds together in the first place. :wink:

    It may be difficult to imagine, but some people may like the aspects of two different breeds they are bringing together.
    Laura R (FL)
    1.0.0 Colombian Tegu
    1.4.0 Argentine B&W Tegu
    1.2.0 Red Tegu
    1.2.0 B/WxRed Tegu
    1.0.0 Green Ameiva (yet another teiid)
    7 other lizards
    1 little gator
    3 FL box turtle
    1 Sulcata tortoise
    16 snakes
    5 fuzzy pets
    4 little frogs
    a bunch of creepy bugs
    and a partridge in a pear tree

  7. #27
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    Mar 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by laurarfl
    Many people are aware of the work involved in creating a dog breed. Many breeds came from bringing various breeds together in the first place. :wink:

    It may be difficult to imagine, but some people may like the aspects of two different breeds they are bringing together.
    I don't support crossing pure bred animals to any degree. Falconers are doing it with peregrines, and other falcons. It muddles things, and I appreciate the clearly marked lines brought about by distinct species, and breeds.

    It is always irritating when someone has say a 'Silkapoo'. My mother has one, and I wish she wouldn't have encouraged that by buying it! Most dog breeds are brought about for various reasons, mostly it would seem for tasks. I have two chihuahuas, and a Newfoundland. I'm glad they aren't Newfy x St. Bernard, or Chihuahua x Yorkshire terrier. Cross breeding two dogs for superficial reasons is somewhat irresponsible I think.

    I certainly wouldn't do it with T. tequixin, and T. meranei if such a thing was possible.

    Remember "Just because you can, doesn't mean you should"- Anonymous author.

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Abbotsford, BC
    Posts
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    I don't see much problem with crossbreeding dogs. First, all breeds were produced by crossbreeding to begin with, so who's to say where this process should end. Second, crossbred dogs are generally healthier than "pure" breeds because they are not subject to imbreeding depression, which comes about as a lack of variation in genetic material.

    As for other animals, I don't see much of a problem, as long as two things don't occur:

    1) Hybrids that are produced do not suffer by virtue of being alive, although this might be difficult to determine, especially given the fuzzy definition of "suffer".

    2) Hybrids are kept in captivity and never released into nature.

    As long as these two conditions are not violated, what is wrong with playing with genetics?

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Central FL
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    I have a purebred Australian Shepherd and he's great. I just don't push my opinions on what I think people should or shouldn't have. A friend of mine has a Maltipoo...good for her...if she likes that kind of dog.

    I also have and breed hybrid corn snakes. I appreciate the fact that some people don't like hybrids...it's kind of a live and let live.
    Laura R (FL)
    1.0.0 Colombian Tegu
    1.4.0 Argentine B&W Tegu
    1.2.0 Red Tegu
    1.2.0 B/WxRed Tegu
    1.0.0 Green Ameiva (yet another teiid)
    7 other lizards
    1 little gator
    3 FL box turtle
    1 Sulcata tortoise
    16 snakes
    5 fuzzy pets
    4 little frogs
    a bunch of creepy bugs
    and a partridge in a pear tree

  10. #30

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by pokeystotle
    But why? It's like the people that cross breed dog breeds. Why would you do that? Do these people have any idea how long it took to breed some of these dogs to be what they are today? Probably not.

    People are cross breeding raptors as well. Ferruginous hawks, and red tails, peregrine falcons with Gyrs, merlins, prairies....I hate it personally. It muddles things up, and makes them usually much worse.
    That's not really a fair characterization. Sometimes crossbreeding is useful, and with all the artificially created breeds of dogs it's arguable whether there's some sort of honourable dog breed integrity anyway.

    Here's an example. My mother's always wanted a Shar-Pei. Unfortunately they're known to be prone to skin problems and sometimes require expensive veterinary treatment for that. My mother felt that was particularly undesirable for the dog and for her pocket book. The solution? She ran into a breeder that breeds Shar-Peis with 1/4 Black Lab in the mix. Black Labs have very healthy skin and apparently this hybrid vigor gave the puppies a better defense against skin conditions in their wrinkles. The result? We have a healthy, happy 10 year old Shar-Pei who's never had skin issues (aside from needing her skin tacked above her eyes a couple of times, but that's normal for wrinkly dogs). Sure she's dumber than a sack of hammers, but we love her that way. :lol: Our last dog was a Beagle-Doberman mix (an adoption) that was smart as a whip, so having a dog that can be easily tricked is kinda fun. :wink:

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