NO NOT ARNIE!***** EXTREMELY URGENT FOR ALL FROG KEEPERS***

[october]

Well, I think Arnie, my unique White's tree frog has Chytrid. If you have followed my posts in this forum, you'll probably be familiar with him and what Chytrid is. If you do not know what chytrid is, here is a brief explanation of it...

Chytrid is disease (mostly amphibians) that has reached epidemic proportions in the world. It is now world news and conservation groups and laboratiores all over the world are researching it and trying to halt it.

It is extrememely serious. It is now believed that Chytrid is threatening 1/3 of the entire worlds population of frogs to the point of extinction... No place is safe. It has been found from Malaysia to Alaska and is now on every continent. Currently, there seems to be no way to stop it in the wild. No place, wild, zoo or home collection is safe.

The fungus attacks the skin of the amphibian and since amphibians breath and absorb through their skin, this can be a fatal disease for them.

However, there is some hope... Lamisil AT (athletes foot) spray pump has been effective in saving amphibians. The dose is 10 squirts of Lamisil At in 200 mls of water... for smaller frogs you can use 5 squirts in 100 mls.

Frogs must be soaked in the solution for 5 minutes each time for 10 days. All things that cannot be disinfected with bleach or other agents, must be destroyed. Also, during the 10 day treatment. The frogs must go into a "hospital tank". A tank with nothing in it but paper towels as a substrate.

Sometimes there are no signs of chytrid. If there are signs, these are usually them..

1) Excessive shedding and/or bad sheddings (crusty, hanging sheddings)
2) Loss of appetite
3) Unwillingness to climb (mostly associated with tree frogs)
4) Frog keeps ending up on its back and can't turn over (mostly associated with pacman frogs)

Anyone who keeps frogs on any level must be aware of these things. The fungus will contaminate other frogs in the tank and can also reach other tanks, through water, soil, handling one frog then handling another one right after etc........

Basically the fungus is everywhere. Some top breeders are treating their frogs before they are even sold. However, places like Petco and others, I don't think are even aware of it. So, some one gets a frog, it dies, They bring it back to the store, they get another frog that petco put in the same tank without disinfecting and the cycle goes on and on. Not only that, if the frog dies from chytrid and is buried, it could get into the soil and also, if the frog is flushed, the fungus can get into the sewers.

Any new amphibian that you get, if it is a species that can be kept with others, should be isolated for 2-3 months. Many people are doing precautionary treatements even though there are no signs.

If you are not familiar with Arnie. Here are some pics. Arnie was continually shedding and was not as active as he used to be at night. Also, his sheds where terrible. Half stuck to him and crusty etc....... He is a very special frog and makes everyone laugh and smile when they see him. He is as friendly as he looks. Keep him in your wishes. Also, Chester, his tank mate is getting the treatment just becasue he was in the same tank.

Rob













Arnie and Chester....Arnie

[Angelrose]

My goodness, how I luv that face!!!

october, you know I luv that guy as well as your others. I always think of Arnie no matter what frog I am looking at. Arnie is definitely in my thoughts; always.

How can you tell if chytrid is gone and the frog is well ?

[HernandosMom]

I'm very sad for you and Arnie. He does look like a special frog, and reminds me of my Uncle Bennie. Thank you for this good post.

Could you please clarify the treatment? Do you make a solution consisting of 10 squirts Lamisil to 200 ml water? Is it safe to assume that a squirt is 1 ml?

Then you make up a fresh batch of this each day for 10 days, and make the frog sit in it for 5 minutes each day?

And it's all the tank furnishings, and the tank itself, that needs disinfecting with bleach, right? Not the frog. Do you have a recommended dilution of bleach?

I was mixed up when I first read it, so I wanted to clarify as it is a good reference that people will want to link to.

Lamisil is powerful stuff. When humans take it they are advised to have their liver function checked periodically, as toxicity can build up in the liver. Don't know if this is the same concern for amphibians.

Folks, even if you don't believe in human-caused global warming, things like this remind us that there is a price to pay for habitat destruction of any kind. The frogs are really suffering worldwide because they are so sensitive to shifts in local temperature, rainfall at different times of year, acid precipitation, chemicals that get into the water supply, etc. It's all one, shrinking world!

[october]

Hello angelrose. The only sure way is to have a sample swabbing of the frog sent to a lab. I believe there are currently 3 that will do this. Well, 3 that I know of, one is in London, I believe the other in Colorado and another place that I can't recall.

So basically 2 tests, 6 months apart is the recommended procedure. This will ensure that tha animal is chytrid free. However, there has been some really good results with the treatmentrs. So in Arnie's case. I am going to do one treatment and watch for any physical or behavioral changes.

Arnie has not shed in about 5-6 days, which is a great sign. Also, I noticed the tiny little white spots that he had when I got him showing back up. Sometimes tree frogs have these little white dot patterns om them, if you look closely. I could be mistaken, however, I can't remember seeing them on Arnie in a few months.

I knew something was wrong when he was going on his third shed in 2 weeks. The shed would only half come off and would become crispy. It just looked painful. I mean they were like glued to him. I would mist him several times and gently rub them until they came lose. Also, he was not as active at night as he used to be. When the lights went out. He would immediatley climb down from his tree and start his night life..lol.. He would bath, get out. Walk around hand out with Chester etc....He stopped doing almost all these things.

************************************************** ****

Hello HernandosMom, I am glad that you are interested in this topic. Anyone who has even one frog needs to know about this...

Here is the procedure. I will tell you what I know and what I have been doing. Also, at the end, I will provide you with some links...

First you will need to get small, tupperware/rubbermaid like containers. You measure 200 ml of water. You can use a measuring cup or many misting bottles have ml readings on them. Add the water to the tupperaware. Then Add the Lamisil AT. It must be the spray pump for athletes foot. Pump 10 sprays into the water (I usually mix it up a bit).

For a smaller frog you would use a smaller container. So, proportion wise, you would use 100 ml with 5 squirts.

The frog is then to sit in the tupperware with the solution for 5 minutes. He is to do this for 10 days. 5 minute soaks each day for 10 days. So 10 soaks total. After they are done soaking for the 5 minutes. They are to be put into a "hospital tank". A tank that contains nothing buy paper towels as a substrate. They are to spend the entire 10 days in this "hospital tank", with the exception of being put into the rubbermaid/tupperware for their treatment. Also, after every treatment, the paper towels in the hospital tank must be changed.

While the frog is in the tupperware, I know that some people bast them, so to speak. I will be using a spoon soon, but I have been using a turkey baster. However, I only put a drop or 2 on their backs and I never put it close to their eyes.

Also, all substrate that was in that tank must be disposed of. Anything that cannot be disinfected with a solution of 10 or 9 parts water to 1 part bleach, must be destroyed. So all driftwood and the like must be destroyed. I personally, disposed of Arnies resin tree, his glass water dish, his silk plants and even ripped the wall mounted thermometes off the tank wall. The only think I will need to disinfect is the tank and top. I actually may give the lighting domes a scrub too. However, I am not sure about that yet.

It appears that they have been using this treatment for a little while and seem to be having good success with it. It appears that this procedure and doses are safe to frogs... Also, think about the alternative, which is death.

It also appears that some species are immune to it, possibly american bullfrogs and marine toads. However, they can still carry it from region to region. Also, we can carry it from area to area on our shoes and just people that have multiple amphibians can spread it from frog to frog throogh handling one frog and then the next or soil getting mixed in or one frog coming into direct contact with another.

It appears that chytrid has been around for a while. However, I guess this is a new type and thats why amphibian populations are declining. I believe it started with the african clawed frog, an aquatic species. As far as I know, african clawed frogs are now illegal to sell in about 12 states.

I think that everyone needs to realize the severity of this...........If we lose the frog species, we are losing much more than pets and a great hobby. Frogs are used in medical research and also keep the insect population from getting out of contro. If we lose frogs, there is going to be one huge upset in the eco system.

I hope this is helpful,

Rob

Here are some links for further reading.


http://www.amphibianark.org/chytrid.htm

More info....


Posted: 2 Mar 2008 20:01 · Edited by: Steven Busch
Quote

I should state we are not Veterinarians.

The symptoms you describe are symptoms of Chytrid fungus. We have very recent information that this is MUCH MORE PREVALENT in the pet trade than believed.

A treatment has been developed by Jay Bowerman that shows great promise, has eliminated chytrid without toxic effects, so far, in his testing of 3 species of frogs. We wish to thank herpetologist Chris Rombough for the valuable information he has provided and his efforts to combat this disease.

The treatment he is using is Lamisil AT spray pump. It costs about $10 at stores that carry foot fungus treatment medicines and is not over the counter product. It is the liquid version. Mix 10 squirts (about 1 ML) in 200 ml (3/4 cups plus 1 1/2 tablespoons) of water that is safe for frogs i.e. no chlorine. Soak for 5 minutes for 10 days. Keep on paper towels changed after each treatment. Your habitat soil needs to be changed and destroyed as the fungus lives in the damp soil.

At this point I think you should try this as he frog is in trouble. We will be posting a more extensive thread soon and will be doing testing ourselves.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Busch
Yoncalla Frog
steve@yoncallafrog.com
www.buschcustomknives.blademakers.com
www.yoncallafrog.com .......soon I hope

[HernandosMom]

thank you for these excellent, informative posts (and cute pictures).

We just got back from tromping around in Costa Rica. We were in forests all over the country, on beaches, farms, in lab-museums (hey, this was a great trip!). Upon returning to the US, no one is really screened at Customs or warned for what they might be carrying in their shoe treds or mucky pants cuffs. I wish they'd have a big, nubby mat in a tray with 1/2 inch deep dissinfectant at every international airport that everyone has to wipe their feet in. Maybe it would cut down on things like mad cow and bird flu, and frog death.

[october]

That would be a good idea.......

I went to the pet store where Arnie and Chester came from. I am usually in there every other day anyway. I talked to the manager and gave him the articles and treatment so he could read it.

He had never heard of Chytrid. You would be surprised how many pet stores have never heard of it.

I suggested to the lady that works the front (not the manager) to not sell anymore frogs until they know how the frogs actually are...Like I said...Someone gets a frog home, it dies, they either flush it or bury it. Then its in the sewer and worse yet, the ground, if it was buried.

Here is another link. You can scroll thorough the pages. Lots of great and important information.

http://talkto.thefrog.org/index.php?...=3&topic=14868

Rob

[Greenmanbacchus]

Hey Rob You're right...."Not Arnie!" I can't help smiling whenever I look at him...he could be a poster boy for White's. I get the feeling that you've got a a handle on Arnie's condition, and that soon he'll be right as rain Excellent description of Chytrid, btw...what a benefit to frog keepers everywhere....I'm adding all those links to my Reptile Links folder. Keep us posted!
GMB

[laurarfl]

Aww, I hope Arnie does well..lots of prayers and well wishes your way. I recently lost my fantasy frog, but it wasn't fungus. Still, it's sad. He was severe MBD and had to be force-fed for the past few months or more like a year. It wasn't a true force-feeding, but a strong hand-feeding, LOL! He just finally succumbed.

As for travel...even if you could dip your shoes, it wouldn't even touch the shoes you've worn and packed, the clothes you're wearing, the suitcases, the purses that touch the ground, on and on.... 8O

It's just a smaller world.

[october]

Thanks everyone......Perhaps we should get this thread stickyed by the moderators. You/they can edit it if you like. Pull out pits and pieces or just leave it. I think it would be highly beneficial to have this permananetly posted at the top of the amphibian forum.

Hello Greenmanbacchus.......Thanks also,,,Arnie is a very special frog and really does make every laugh. He has brightened a lot of people's days.

Anyway, he is half way done with his treatemenets. However, he shed again today, I don't think that is a good sign. However, maybe it was just his natural time to shed.

I will say that his appetite is still strong as ever...ha ha ha Fatty would never miss a meal. He even bit me today while I was trying to help him shed and that was after he ate.

I will say that he seems more and more alert as the treatements continue.
My initial plan was to have a swab sent to a lab to confirm chytrid. I had talked to the vet and they said they could find a lab that does that. However, I thought that it may not be that wise to wait. I figured, better safe than sorry. I am not 100% sure Arnie has Chytrid. However, a classic sign is excessive shedding and the sheds are crusty and do not come off. Arnie was exhibiting this and it was getting worse and worse. The funny thing is, he really doesn't act sick. Which isa great sign and as long as he's eating, thats a very good sign

Thanks for all your wishes...

Rob

[october]

Just wanted to add some info abvout the chytrid treatment. I recently found out that the hospital tank itself, needs to be disinfected after every treatment for the 10 day period. So after the frog soaks in the runbbermaid/tupperware container. He is to be returned to the disinfected hospital tank and put on fresh paper towels.

Unfortunately, I did not have this information and I never didinfected the hospital tank after each treatment.

Also, there is word now that 7 treatments instead of 10, may be sufficient. However, I do not believe it is "official" yet.

Rob