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Thread: Stubborn little thing

  1. #1
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    Post Stubborn little thing

    Hi again,

    About a month ago, my boyfriend and I got our baby b&w Argentine. We named him/her Kahlua (after the coffee-flavored alcoholic drink haha!). He/she was about 10" and pretty skittish. It would huff and hiss whenever we got too close and tail whipped when we tried to pick it up.

    I have some general questions/concerns that I hope to be answered!

    Physical traits

    It is now probably around 11", we haven't measured. I think it's underweight because he/she is a very picky eater which I will get into later. He/she has extra skin hanging from the chin, and wrinkles around the neck. Although I have no comparison, I'm pretty sure it should gain some more weight. I have attached some pictures of him/her, although they're terrible quality.

    Also, his/her tail seems a little crooked. There's a spot about 2 inches in from the tip where it bends slightly to the side. It does not seem broken, and there are not rips in the skin or anything. My guess is that it happened when it was doing its tail whipping. I have not been able to get a picture, but can someone tell me if this is something to be concerned about or if it is normal for tegus. (sorry to sound ignorant!)

    Taming

    Although I knew that gaining tegus trust would take some time, I did not anticipate taking a month and more with no clear progression. He/she still hisses and tailwhips, and now bites occasionally. When it is on the surface, it will watch our every move and huff if we make big movements.

    After catching it and bringing it outside the cage, however, it will calm down when we pet it in our hands, and doesn't even walk off when we put our hands to the floor. When he/she is outside the cage on the carpet, it is very curious and looks around the room, always attempting to get into our Armadillo lizards' cage (to fight or to eat them, I don't know). We let it wander for about an hour every couple of days and then put it back (with the same struggle as before).

    My question/concern is whether this behavior is common for young tegus. All I hear is how calm and tame everybody's babies are when they arrive. I haven't heard many people have trouble with their young tegus for very long. We have tried the t-shirt method and have tried to hold it every day. We even sit near next to the cage when he/she is out so it can study us.

    Behavior

    He/she is buried most of the time. We have gone 2 or so days without seeing it on the surface. (Although we're not in the room the entire time). After two or three days of hiding, it will come out and bask for a day or two and then repeat. Does anybody else's tegu do that?

    Also, he/she often closes his/her eyes in a sleep like fashion even while we're holding it or we're close by. Sometimes it zones out with its eyes open. Is this normal behavior?

    Eating

    This is a big concern for me. Although I know it takes a while for the tegus to trust the owner enough to eat, Kahlua does not seem like a big eater at all, which I deem strange for a tegu(?)

    The pet store we got him/her from said all they fed them was crickets, but Kahlua won't even touch the crickets after we got it. It hisses at them.

    We have tried feeding it every day, but it only eats about once every two to four days. It eats about one pinky every time, or two worms, or a couple of strawberries (it pooed on the oranges haha).

    It's even a struggle for us to make him/her eat. He/she won't eat the pinkies if we just put them down. We either have to throw them at him/her or for the first time today he/she ate a swinging pinky out of tweezers while hissing at us at the same time.

    Today we tried some of that instant tegu food you find at petstores, and it did some licking and maybe ate a tiny bit.

    I'm concerned because he/she looks hungry most of the time (tongue flapping and eager look when he/she gets near the pinkies) but I'm not sure if he/she thinks the food is poisoned because it came from us! haha Does anybody else's tegu do that? Or does not eat a lot? Please share your stories and how you went about trying to solve it.


    Please read this long and tedious post (I really have to learn how to be more concise!) and share your wisdom.

    P.S. Kahlua poos a normal amount I think for how much/often he/she eats. (Every three or four days)
    I think the temperature in the cage might be a little high. Does that cause tegus to be a little more aggressive?
    Also, it has not shed yet. It has been a month since we got him/her. Is that normal?
    The pictures I attached were caught when he/she was huffing, so he/she may appear slightly thinner.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by mishua; 05-28-2009 at 04:51 AM.
    0.0.1 Argentine B&W Tegu *NEW!*
    0.0.3 Jones Armadillo Lizards
    0.0.2 Tropical Girdled Lizards
    2.0.0 Cats
    2.0.0 Winter White Russian Hamsters
    1.1.0 Rabbits

  2. #2
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    seems a little thin. hows the tail- thick or thin as well. some tegus can be very picky eaters try uncooked ground turkey,hard boiled egg etc. also make sure he is warm enough and getting proper uv lighting. get him/her some real sun exposure. there is alot of post here you can find about everything tegu.. good luck

  3. #3
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    What Pet Store did you get it from?
    Did they tell you what lighting you needed?
    What lighting do you have?
    Do you put any calcium powder on any of the food?
    What is the temp in the basking spot directly under the heat light?
    What is the temp in the cooler end?
    What do you feed the Tegu in?
    When you feed it how long do you leave it with the food and are you watching the whole time?
    When you take your Tegu out are you digging him out of a hide spot?
    0.0.1 2010 Argentine Red Tegu
    1.1 2006 Ackie Monitors

    1.0
    2004 Albino Boa
    0.3 2001 Normal/2003&2010 100% het. Albino Colombian Boa
    0.1 2005 Red Nic. Boa
    0.2 2006 Stripe/Reverse Stripe Nic. Boa's
    1.1 2004 Braz. Rainbow Boa's
    1.1 2004/2007 Guatemalan boa



  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boozer View Post
    seems a little thin. hows the tail- thick or thin as well. some tegus can be very picky eaters try uncooked ground turkey,hard boiled egg etc. also make sure he is warm enough and getting proper uv lighting. get him/her some real sun exposure. there is alot of post here you can find about everything tegu.. good luck
    Hi Boozer,

    The tail is pretty decent in thickness. (And STRONG too)

    We have the UVB light on a little over 12 hours a day.

    And we are going to try the ground turkey tomorrow! So fingers crossed that he/she will go crazy for food soon! I feel so bad because he/she looks like we've been starving it, but we've been trying to feed it every day!
    0.0.1 Argentine B&W Tegu *NEW!*
    0.0.3 Jones Armadillo Lizards
    0.0.2 Tropical Girdled Lizards
    2.0.0 Cats
    2.0.0 Winter White Russian Hamsters
    1.1.0 Rabbits

  5. #5
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    cool let us know and good luck!!

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob-905-Canada View Post
    What Pet Store did you get it from?
    Did they tell you what lighting you needed?
    What lighting do you have?
    Do you put any calcium powder on any of the food?
    What is the temp in the basking spot directly under the heat light?
    What is the temp in the cooler end?
    What do you feed the Tegu in?
    When you feed it how long do you leave it with the food and are you watching the whole time?
    When you take your Tegu out are you digging him out of a hide spot?
    Hi Rob! Thanks for your reply!

    I ordered the tegu from Reptile Depot, and I know they've had mixed reviews from the past, but I made sure to ask a lot of questions before hand and I had a good experience with their service.

    We have UVA/UVB 10.0 and a 100 watt basking light.

    We put calcium powder on all of the crickets we attempt to feed him/her and everything that isn't whole prey (like the pinkies).

    The basking spot temp is around 95-100 constantly and the temp in the cooler end is around 80 (I know that's high, but we are moving him/her in a bigger cage this week which we can control the temps easier)

    We try to take Kahlua out every day to feed. For the crickets, we put him/her in a tub, and we just put the pinkies on a plate or the carpet. (Mostly carpet because he/she'll only eat them if we throw them at him/her while it's wandering around)

    We watch it the entire time if we take him/her out. But we leave food in a bowl in the cage and take it out at the end of the day if he/she doesn't eat it.

    Why definitely try not to dig Kahlua out, but it's hard not to especially since he/she is hiding all day every day for a couple of days and it hasn't eaten that entire time. If it ate the previous day and it's hiding, we try to put the food in a bowl in the cage. (Mostly with fruit)

    Let me know if you need to know more!
    0.0.1 Argentine B&W Tegu *NEW!*
    0.0.3 Jones Armadillo Lizards
    0.0.2 Tropical Girdled Lizards
    2.0.0 Cats
    2.0.0 Winter White Russian Hamsters
    1.1.0 Rabbits

  7. #7
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    That young digging them up scares them and usually breaks trust or makes it harder to build a trust thats probably contributing to your problems with taming. Once you get it eating more steadily you probably notice it be easier.

    My advice stay away from any Tegu diet, commercial tegu food, cat food and dog food you find in any pet stores.

    When you try the grounded chicken/or turkey tomorrow make it into small bite size balls and put pieces of fruits in it and put it on a flat plate in the feeding bin then put him in there and leave him in there for a good 10 minutes alone with knowone watching.

    Also don't know if you've already tried this but try Mealworms/superworms in a bowl dusted with the calcium left with him in his feeding container for a good 10 minutes.

    I've only had Two Tegu's young (got the other two as adults) but my first Tegu which ate crickets no problem but there is my red which went straight into hibernation but before going into hibernation wouldn't take any crickets only a bowl of super worms and wouldn't take fruits bythemself had to put in the bowl of superworms. Hes popped out a few times during his hibernation would still only eat anything with superworms haven't had much time to play around with his diet due to the fact after eating hes go back under >.<

    Also another trick you can try is try putting a lil bit of egg yolk on the food item on the plate in its feeding bin. My 4 foot Red tegu will usually eats fruits I give it no problem but sometimes I got to put egg yolk on it and then she will eat them 100%
    0.0.1 2010 Argentine Red Tegu
    1.1 2006 Ackie Monitors

    1.0
    2004 Albino Boa
    0.3 2001 Normal/2003&2010 100% het. Albino Colombian Boa
    0.1 2005 Red Nic. Boa
    0.2 2006 Stripe/Reverse Stripe Nic. Boa's
    1.1 2004 Braz. Rainbow Boa's
    1.1 2004/2007 Guatemalan boa



  8. #8
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    It can take some time to tame.

    I've only had one tegu from a hatchling and I didn't have much success with taming right away. In fact, every time I picked her up, she tried to bite and pooed on my hand. Very scared little lizard. :-(

    Your guy looks a little thin and has been fed a low calcium diet (insects, ground turkey). It's not a big deal, it's just what young tegus in captivity eat. I used to not be a big fan of supplements, but so many young tegus are showing up with MBD (not talking about yours, just a generalization). I would recommend a calcium supplement to be used 3 times a week while the lizard is growing. Some like D3, some don't...I include D3 for all of my animals but 2 tegus that have a strong, unfiltered UV source. I would use a separate multivitamin once or twice a week. When the tegu is big enough to start eating whole food with bones (chicks, rodents, small fish), then the supplements can be reduced.

    While the 10.0 light is a good light (providing it is linear and not the coiled/compact type), if it is more than 12" away or sitting on top of a screen, much of the UV is lost before it reaches the tegu. Plus if he's hiding a lot, he's missing quite a bit. Maybe you can lower the light into the cage or raise the basking area by providing more mulch or a little thing to sit on. I have also found that my tegus eat better and are more active if they have a basking spot of 105-110. That's a little thing I went through last spring. My tegus weren't eating when the basking spot was only 95-100.

    When mine was little, I only had her for maybe a month before she hibernated. She didn't grow much and wasn't handleable. She wouldn't eat outside of the cage so I feed her inside her enclosure. I used a small plate and paced the food in the middle to reduce the chances of impaction. I also fed crickets in her enclosure. I got her at 2 weeks of age from a breeder and I kept her on paper towels for a while (with a hide box) so she wouldn't eat the mulch by accident. She was so little! I didn't put her on mulch until she was about a month old....then she went into hibernation.

    When she woke up, the training deal started all over. Her cage was by the front door so she saw everyone come in and out. She was pretty used to seeing people and we would always stop, look at her, and say, "Hi Kreacher" through the glass if she was up. I would pick her up every day, but just pick her up, touch her, then put her back. Each day it was a little more and a little more until I felt comfotable putting her down without her running off. Then I started feeding her outisde the cage. Eventually being picked up and coming out of the cage = food and good things for lizards. She started coming over to us to come out. Two years later and an 8ft cage, whenever she sees us come into the garage, she walks over to glass and presses her face against the door like, "Pluuuzzz take me out!!!" She is my friendliest and most favorite tegu! (She's my avatar) Now, I got her in early Sept, she hibernated in Nov, woke up in April, and was handleable by next June. It took some time. And she had no history...she was almost a "blank slate" of sorts. Yours has a bit of history with being in a pet store and probably little handling.

    I know this is getting long...sorry. I've been listening to an audiobook while driving from Orl/Tampa and back. I didn't know it, but it turns out to be about behaviorism. According to the author's research, animals are driven by certain behaviors/parts of the brain. She was just discussing mammals up to this point, but I imagine reptiles would demostrate a lot of seeking and fear. Seeking is hunting and looking for new experiences. It is very pleasurable and in tegus it would be the deliberate walk, rapid tongue flicking sort of look. Fear is obvious and in tegus that would be freezing with wide eyes, running away, possibly closing eyes in an effort to reduce external visual stimulus. There's also rage that comes when fear is excessively stimulated. I'm just trying to apply what this author is saying to tegus, I'm not certain that this is how it all works out.

    I do know that the best way to work with any animal is to reduce the fear response as much as possible and stimulate seeking behavior (such as clicker training in animals, enrichment, any positive experience). A young lizard is going to see himself as prey and anything taller than him and anything that grabs him is going to elicit a fear response. He's not going to eat when his fear center is activated because eating makes him vulnerable. So both diet and environment play a role in young tegus. Now everyone lizard is different and each one has a different threshhold or tolerance of uncomfortable situations. Maybe yours can only tolerate your hand being in the cage at this point. But I'm pretty certain that in time he'll become the tame tegu you are looking for. You just have to move small and be consistent.

    Anyway, I don't know if any of these ramblings help or not. It is an interesting book and I thought maybe I could share a bit that might possibly help.
    Laura R (FL)
    1.0.0 Colombian Tegu
    1.4.0 Argentine B&W Tegu
    1.2.0 Red Tegu
    1.2.0 B/WxRed Tegu
    1.0.0 Green Ameiva (yet another teiid)
    7 other lizards
    1 little gator
    3 FL box turtle
    1 Sulcata tortoise
    16 snakes
    5 fuzzy pets
    4 little frogs
    a bunch of creepy bugs
    and a partridge in a pear tree

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob-905-Canada View Post
    That young digging them up scares them and usually breaks trust or makes it harder to build a trust thats probably contributing to your problems with taming. Once you get it eating more steadily you probably notice it be easier.

    My advice stay away from any Tegu diet, commercial tegu food, cat food and dog food you find in any pet stores.

    When you try the grounded chicken/or turkey tomorrow make it into small bite size balls and put pieces of fruits in it and put it on a flat plate in the feeding bin then put him in there and leave him in there for a good 10 minutes alone with knowone watching.

    Also don't know if you've already tried this but try Mealworms/superworms in a bowl dusted with the calcium left with him in his feeding container for a good 10 minutes.

    I've only had Two Tegu's young (got the other two as adults) but my first Tegu which ate crickets no problem but there is my red which went straight into hibernation but before going into hibernation wouldn't take any crickets only a bowl of super worms and wouldn't take fruits bythemself had to put in the bowl of superworms. Hes popped out a few times during his hibernation would still only eat anything with superworms haven't had much time to play around with his diet due to the fact after eating hes go back under >.<

    Also another trick you can try is try putting a lil bit of egg yolk on the food item on the plate in its feeding bin. My 4 foot Red tegu will usually eats fruits I give it no problem but sometimes I got to put egg yolk on it and then she will eat them 100%
    Thanks for your advice, Rob!

    We will definitely try everything!
    0.0.1 Argentine B&W Tegu *NEW!*
    0.0.3 Jones Armadillo Lizards
    0.0.2 Tropical Girdled Lizards
    2.0.0 Cats
    2.0.0 Winter White Russian Hamsters
    1.1.0 Rabbits

  10. #10
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    Hi Laura, thanks for sharing your stories!

    I feel better and more determined to create a good relationship with Kahlua now that I know more people also have had trouble in the beginning.

    We have been putting calcium powder on all the crickets, but he/she hasn't eaten a single cricket. The only thing it has eaten are pinkies, a couple of mealworms, and some strawberries.

    When you had to feed your baby in the enclosure and you had to use paper towels, did it still dig underneath? Would you recommend that we do that for a while? Please let me know because we might have to end up taking out the mulch when we move it to the bigger cage this week.

    The information on behaviorism is very interesting! Everything does fit pretty well.

    Thank you!
    0.0.1 Argentine B&W Tegu *NEW!*
    0.0.3 Jones Armadillo Lizards
    0.0.2 Tropical Girdled Lizards
    2.0.0 Cats
    2.0.0 Winter White Russian Hamsters
    1.1.0 Rabbits

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