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Thread: 125 gallon w african cichlids

  1. #11
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    Oct 2008
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    richmond, va
    Posts
    362

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    i've been looking at a lot of tanks on youtube which I know isn't a good judge but a lot of people have a lot of africans in their tanks and a lot of the forums I read say you should stock a lot of africans together so that a male doesn't become dominant over the whole tank. i am going to stack a bunch of rocks on that far right side in the next day or two.. im looking into getting more though.

    QUICK QUESTION: can you house peacocks with the type of fish I have in my tank?
    1 leopard gecko
    1 gargoyle gecko
    125 gallon fish tank african cichlids
    1 red tegu
    1 jeweled lacerta
    1 western hognose
    1 coastalxjungle carpet python
    1 argentine red tail boa
    1 braziliain rainbow boa
    2 lightening blue geckos
    1 tokay gecko
    hundreds of roaches

  2. #12

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    When dealing with African Malawi Mbuna you should ALWAYS overstock. The only issue is that you have to have a good enough filtration system. Not just to handle the raw waste produced by decent sized fish in a good quantity- but to move enough water so that your biological filtration is working at it's peak.

    In my opinion you should probably get rid of some fish in favor of others- such as the frontosa. They are African cichlids but they're from lake Tanganyika not Malawi. They do not like to be overly populated, they grow much larger than the mbuna, and their dietary needs are different.

    When dealing with African cichlids there is really only two ways to have high chances of overall long term success. You either do a species style tank or an all male tank.

    Your stocklist right now at the moment is neither- but since all your fish are juveniles they are not seriously going to display some of their mature nature. So for the time being you'll be fine- though, within 3-6 months you're going to have issues.

    This fish that I've seen in your pictures and the fish you've listed are as follows;
    Pseudotropheus demasoni : Mildly aggressive dwarf mbuna, they only get about 3"
    Labidochromis caeruleus(Electric Yellow) : Probably the most overall docile mbuna, they can get about
    6"
    Nimbochromis venustus : Venustus are not mbuna they are haplochromines, unlike their Malawian counterpart they do not live amongst they rocky shoreline- they are much larger openwater predators which can reach up to 11-12" inches in length!
    Sciaenochromis fryeri : This is the real name for 'electric blue ahli.' These gusy are haplochromines just like the venustus and grow just as large although they can become much more aggressive. Overall one of the most aggressive haplochromines.
    Pseudotropheus kenyi : Males of this species are yellow with brownish barring and females stay blue. They can grow to be 6" in length and can become very aggressive.
    Pseudotropheus socolofi : They can grow to be 6" in length and they are mildly aggressive.
    Metriaclima estherae : This is the real species of the 'Red Zebra' and the 'Albino Zebra.' They can grow to 6" and can become pretty mean. A lot of times these fish are horribly hybridized especially if you got them from a big chain pet store.
    Tropheus duboisi : These guys are Tanganyikan cichlids just like the Frontsa, although they behave very very similarly to the Malawian mbuna. With these guys you either keep one, or you have to do a large group. They're a more difficult fish to keep if you want them to really thrive.

    What I think would be the best option for you, since this is your first time dealing with Africans on a large scale is to stick with 3-4 mbuna species that do not look at like like one another and have groups of 7-9 fish. So roughly a total of 30 or so fish.

    I would honestly see if you can rehomes some of your fish like your frontosa,duboisi and your fryeri. Then decide on what fish are you most favorite (make sure they don't look similar) then focus on getting larger groups of them.

    But before all of this before you start moving fish around and putting a lot more in make sure you throughly understand the nitrogen cycle. Here is a pretty good link describing it http://www.fishlore.com/NitrogenCycle.htm without a doubt the most important aspect of fish keeping.

    Anyway, let me know what you decide to do. If you have any questions I'd be more than happy to awnser them to the best of my ability.
    -Chris

  3. #13
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    Oct 2008
    Location
    richmond, va
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    If i stack rocks up on the far side of the tank to make a bunch of different caves..good sized rocks of course do you think that will work? I am not too much concerned with the frontosa but the duboisi is my favorite fish in the tank. I think he is the prettiest and I do only have one but am thinking about getting another one. All your help is greatly appreciated. I am also looking into getting an electric blue johanni. You're going to have to help me with this as to what I should do. I do not really know which ones go together. I am thinking about getting in addition to what I have two electric blue johannis. A lavendar rusty cichlid. I also would like to keep a couple peacocks in my tank. Right now I just have a fairly small filter on my tank. I have two fluval 305s sitting under my tank but am having a hard time understanding how they work. My friend put them on my tank for me and I can't understand after you put the tubes in the water how you make the water get up the tubes and into the tank. I read that you should cut your tubes so that they barely go over the top of your tank..Let me know what you think.
    1 leopard gecko
    1 gargoyle gecko
    125 gallon fish tank african cichlids
    1 red tegu
    1 jeweled lacerta
    1 western hognose
    1 coastalxjungle carpet python
    1 argentine red tail boa
    1 braziliain rainbow boa
    2 lightening blue geckos
    1 tokay gecko
    hundreds of roaches

  4. #14

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    Yes having lots of territories is a great idea. The concern that I see is with the stocking. Yes, you can house peacocks with mbuna but it is a challange. Peacocks are openwater fish that do not like the crowded constant activity of mbuna. A lot of times if you have just one male- they will not color up because of the stress caused to them. If you have a group of males/females your male will probably color up but become overly aggressive once they start breeding.

    It also depends on where you get your fish, 99% of chain pet stores that sell peacocks that are hormone fed. They are all vibrantly colorful for a time period but then end up loosing it because they get their fish from distributers that mass produce hybrid fish because they don't really strive to keep the integritiy of the fish- they just want to make a buck. So they feed them hormones and most of the public is none the wiser, they'll just buy the fish because it looks pretty. Anyway, to make a long story short to be happy with the fish in the long term get good fish to begin with.

    If you're thinking about getting Melanochromis johanni or electric blue johanni. I would get multiples of them, honestly like 6-7 but then I would get rid of your Pseudotropheus demasoni because to them they both look similar. Dark blue with light blue barring- they will be very aggressive with one another- especially the dominant males.

    The reasoning for why it is best to go with multiple groups of fish is because of this. Once they mature the dominant males will constantly be showing off- pushing other fish around, trying to breed with any female he can. If there is another male in the tank that even slightly looks like him- he is going to butt heads with him because they are going to challange each others dominance.

    For example a good stocking list in your tank would be, Electric yellows, get like 8 of them. Same with say, a group of 7-8 demasoni or electric blues. Since they don't look at all like one another, and there is enough of each species that theywont have to intermingle. Then add like two other groups of mbuna, but make sure that they're not blue or yellow. Maybe a group of Aceii or something- they're lavander with yellow fins.



    I'm sure you get the picture. And if you want to try keeping like a peacock or two, as well as the fryeri and the venustus go for it. But just be sure to keep an eye on them because your mbuna will mostlikely endup beating on them.

    As for your Fluvals, you need to get them both up and running. Canister filters are fantasic, go to www.google.com and search Fluval 305 instructions. Downlaod the first link, it's a PDF file. That will be easier than me typing it all here.

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    richmond, va
    Posts
    362

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    So this is what i have found after my research
    MBUNA
    rusty cichlid
    yellow lab
    red zebra
    kenyi
    malawi golden cichlid
    demasoni
    albino zebra

    so this leaves out the duboisi, frontosa, electric blue ahli, and the venustus(sp)
    THe PROblem:
    I really like my duboisi and since it is my smallest fish i think that I am going to keep it and see what happens..What do you see wrong with this?
    I do not like having a bunch of the same fish. The reason i have a fish tank is because I like all the different colors and a variety.
    SOLUTION:
    I am giving my frontosa back and getting 10 dollar credit for it in which I will get a rusty cichlid.
    I am not getting my fish from a pet store. I am getting them from a guy who does alot of breeding out of his house and has a wholesaler who he purchases his fish from.
    I will also be setting up a lot of slate rock in my tank to make a lot of hides..
    I think that I am going to try and do maybe 4 peacocks.
    questions:
    Are there different colors of peacocks that i can put together? I do not want all the same colors.
    What are the fish that I can put in my tank that will go good with what I have already?
    1 leopard gecko
    1 gargoyle gecko
    125 gallon fish tank african cichlids
    1 red tegu
    1 jeweled lacerta
    1 western hognose
    1 coastalxjungle carpet python
    1 argentine red tail boa
    1 braziliain rainbow boa
    2 lightening blue geckos
    1 tokay gecko
    hundreds of roaches

  6. #16

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    Okay, if you don't want to have to groups of fish then the only other option you've got is the all male. The reason why all male works is because just so long as you do not put fish in that look similar, and since you're not going to have any females no one will be overly aggressive.

    If you keep two together that look the same they'll fight for dominance.

    The problem. Doing all male mbuna is very tricky because most of the species are monomorphic, meaning that males and females look the same. Since all your fish are young now they'll be fine. But once they get that urge to spawn watch out. Since they're all mouthbrooders and capable of spawning with one another they'll be fighting constantly over the females. And without a doubt in my mind they will be killed since males can really be tough on the females- especially if there isn't enough of them. Generally for any harem breeders an accecptable ratio of males to females is 1/4.

    So yes you can have one fish each and have them all be fine- it's just you have to be sure that you have ALL males and none of them look similar to one another.

    As far as peacocks go, yes you can have different ones in a tank that all look different but again it's tricky. In my all male tank I have six different fully grown male peacocks but I got them as babies and grew them up in seperate tanks with females so they were each the dominant male. Once they were fully colored up I introduced them into my show tank all at once so one no would be dominant from the start. It's been a long time and they're still colored up and get along fine, again they're all fully mature they don't look alike and there is no females.

    As for what you can put in there that will go fine, other than the same species of fish you've got is well, I would say just go for one of each fish that you like, any mbuna. Let them grow out, once they start maturing you'll know who is the boss and if you have any females. You'll have to remove females. It all depends on the ratio you get. Say you add 10 more fish so you have roughly 20. In three months from now you realise you have 15 males and 5 females. They're going to kill those females and kill each other unless you get the females out.

    If you want to try peacocks go for it too- add them while they're young. Try to get proven males, and again none that look similar. It'll give you the best chance of having them all color up, but when they grow up with one another you'll pretty much always have one being dominant. With peacocks that means that your subdominant males will look unattractive, kind of like female peacocks

    Although I work around fish for 84 hours a week there is still people I meet that do everything wrong and everything works out fine. Since you're dealing with intelligent living beings you cannot completely control them just aid them in what scientifically they like. Even then though, sometimes you'll find cichlids that are completely unlike any others of their same species. Albeit rare, it is possible.

  7. #17
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    Oct 2008
    Location
    richmond, va
    Posts
    362

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    well I got some great news tonight. I finally got one of my canister 304s working. I rinsed out all the carbon media and all that. So now I have two filters running on this aquariu. I did put a bunch of big rock in there stacked to make a bunch of caves and all that and moved the decorations around some. i will take pictures tomorrow when the tank settles down and is not so cloudy. The all male thing seems like it will be tough to do since its hard to tell the sex of fish. If I did want to keep groups, why do they have to be such big groups i.e. 7 or 8?
    Why can't I have smaller groups of say 3 yellow labs. 2 red zebras. 2 albino zebras. 4 different colored peacocks. you know instead 7 or 8 of the same kind? I like to have different fish in my tank and only have one room in a college house for my stuff so I can't have a lot of different fish tanks. Can you tell me some names of the more popular mbuna that are good looking but dififerent. I like the lavender ones a lot. I'm gonna get some of those. I guess i'm never going to really know what works until my fish mature and get bigger and older.
    1 leopard gecko
    1 gargoyle gecko
    125 gallon fish tank african cichlids
    1 red tegu
    1 jeweled lacerta
    1 western hognose
    1 coastalxjungle carpet python
    1 argentine red tail boa
    1 braziliain rainbow boa
    2 lightening blue geckos
    1 tokay gecko
    hundreds of roaches

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    richmond, va
    Posts
    362

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    I also wanted to give you an idea of what my tank looks like.

    THE RIGHT SIDE


    THE LEFT SIDE


    SOME FISH




    WHAT KIND OF FISH IS THIS ONE? He's the one right to the right of the light blue one in the picture above.
    1 leopard gecko
    1 gargoyle gecko
    125 gallon fish tank african cichlids
    1 red tegu
    1 jeweled lacerta
    1 western hognose
    1 coastalxjungle carpet python
    1 argentine red tail boa
    1 braziliain rainbow boa
    2 lightening blue geckos
    1 tokay gecko
    hundreds of roaches

  9. #19

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    That fish is a melanochromis auratus he can be a very mean fish. Males take on a more brownish coloration. Also, a little history they were the first cichlid ever exported from lake Malawi.

    The reason it is much better to have groups and not pairs with the fish you're dealing with is because they are not pair breeders. They are harem breeders.

    For example you get two of any mbuna. You're not sure if they're male or female so you decide to just let them grow out for a bit. One of three things will happen. Either one will be a male and one will be a female. In this case the male will end up killing the female because he will be constantly hounding her to spawn. Even after they spawn and she is holding- he will not let up. Now, lets say you get a male and a male. They will both beat each other up because they look the same and will be fighting for territory/dominance. One will win, and the other one will either die or be really lethargic, staying hidden in the corner of the tank- not eating. Lastly, say you get two females. You've got a 50%/50% chance that they'll both be fine. Though, one might be an overly aggressive female and constantly be at the other one for dominance.

    Now lets say you have these same mbuna, but say eight of them. You end up with three males and five females. You'll just have to remove one male and everything will be fine. Just so long as you keep the ratio of males to females as closely to 1/3 or 1/4 you'll be okay. The more females the better though. The two males will have enough fish to push around so no one fish gets constantly picked on. The females will be fine because the males will have enough girls to go around.


    If you want a tank with all different species I would highly suggest to go with one of each that do not look the same. Weed out the females when you find them.

    Here is an example of the species tank.



    Here is the all male tank.


    With a tank your size you do have a little room to stretch the rules, I would always just try to recommend using one of these two styles as a template. So if you end up going with the species tank, but you like a specific peacock. Put him in there and see how he does.

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    richmond, va
    Posts
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    Thats the yellow and blue one with horizontal stripes. i was talking about the smaller brown one that is right next to him. How do you know whether a fish is male or female. Instead of keeping the fish in pairs or large groups. Why is it bad to have one fish of each type as long as they look different. That way they wont have any one to spawn with and if they are male they wont be fighting with another fish that looks similar for dominance.
    1 leopard gecko
    1 gargoyle gecko
    125 gallon fish tank african cichlids
    1 red tegu
    1 jeweled lacerta
    1 western hognose
    1 coastalxjungle carpet python
    1 argentine red tail boa
    1 braziliain rainbow boa
    2 lightening blue geckos
    1 tokay gecko
    hundreds of roaches

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