Questions about growing old tegu's

[simon021]

Careful, Rick, you keep going out on that limb and it'll break. That's not Tupinambis duseni in that video, it's very much T.merianae. I keep telling you that the species has more variation than you've ever seen, and you never believe me. Colour is NOT a reliable trait to go by with tegus....

Do you have any pictures of the Tupinambis duseni?

[Angelrose]

Tupinambis duseni

[simon021]

WOW. Those are some amazing looking Tegus. I take it there is something that prevents those from being bred like your usual B&W?

[Angelrose]

They really are amazing looking, I think so too !! The country in which they come from stops it. tupinambis can explain that better than I ever can. I'm sorry.

[tupinambis]

but from a video, how can you be scientifically positive which tupinambis this is? Both species come from that region. Can you see the scale merisitics from within a youtube video?

Whereas admittedly not all the morphometrics and meristics can be made out from that video, there's more to go on than that to help nail down what species is in that video.

The location is exactly where duseni are found

This is where you are dead wrong. Tupinambis duseni are pretty much completely restricted to the cerrado biome (tropical savanna). Sana, RJ (state of Rio de Janiero), Brasil is in the Mata Atlantica biome (coastal tropical rainforest). This is a pretty good indication that any wild tegu in a video from this location is very unlikely T.duseni. Now, this is admittedly not entirely concrete. However, according to my associates, there is no reliable record of T.duseni in the entire state of Rio de Janiero.

Whereas I've stated colour is not a reliable character, sometimes patterning is. The patterning on the limbs of the tegu in the video are typical for T.merianae, T.duseni is more blotchy, less spotted, and predominantly darker (particularly the hands and feet). The head as well has distinctive patterning - the head of T.duseni is predominantly darker, not just the "singed" nose common in a number of tegu species. Dorsal banding in T.duseni tends to be irregular, broken up, the one in the video has solid, regular banding (common to other tegu species). Secondly, the build or shape of the body is again typical of T.merianae. Tupinambis duseni are notorious amongst tegu researchers for being "unbalanced" or looking "backwards". T.duseni tend to have largish heads and forelimbs as large as or often even larger than the hind limbs.

[Rick]

T.duseni have been photographed in Goias and Minas Gerais, and scientifically documented in Gorias. They are both nearby states. It is possible they wander into Rio de Janeiro.

You use terms like "pretty much completely" and "admittedly not entirely concrete" when what you mean to say is that you too are speculating.

I did not say that it WAS a T.duseni. I was speculating that it could be. Either way, I would buy several that looked like that. (if it was legal to do so)

To end this, before it turns into a long drawn out discussion, I will clarify the word I used...

Speculate
To assume to be true without conclusive evidence

Rick

[Mangue]

Whereas admittedly not all the morphometrics and meristics can be made out from that video, there's more to go on than that to help nail down what species is in that video.



This is where you are dead wrong. Tupinambis duseni are pretty much completely restricted to the cerrado biome (tropical savanna). Sana, RJ (state of Rio de Janiero), Brasil is in the Mata Atlantica biome (coastal tropical rainforest). This is a pretty good indication that any wild tegu in a video from this location is very unlikely T.duseni. Now, this is admittedly not entirely concrete. However, according to my associates, there is no reliable record of T.duseni in the entire state of Rio de Janiero.

Whereas I've stated colour is not a reliable character, sometimes patterning is. The patterning on the limbs of the tegu in the video are typical for T.merianae, T.duseni is more blotchy, less spotted, and predominantly darker (particularly the hands and feet). The head as well has distinctive patterning - the head of T.duseni is predominantly darker, not just the "singed" nose common in a number of tegu species. Dorsal banding in T.duseni tends to be irregular, broken up, the one in the video has solid, regular banding (common to other tegu species). Secondly, the build or shape of the body is again typical of T.merianae. Tupinambis duseni are notorious amongst tegu researchers for being "unbalanced" or looking "backwards". T.duseni tend to have largish heads and forelimbs as large as or often even larger than the hind limbs.

Perfect!

I would say the same thing, but my English is very bad and I have some difficulty in writing long texts :oops:

T. Dunseni only occurs in the Cerrado region, a region of Mata Atlântica is the predominance of Tupinambis merianae. T. Duseni occurs in Minas Gerais, Goias and Tocantins ...

And Rick, Goias and Minas Gerais are "close" to Rio de Janeiro but not both, there are many cities dividing these states, and the climate here in Brazil vary from one state to another, the fauna and flora of many sites here are fully endemic.

In Brazil there are several species of Tupinambis ... t. merianae, t. duseni, t. quadrilineatus, t. teguixin, t. longilineus, t. palustris, t. refuscens ...

And we also have many other species of Teiidae, such as Dracaena Guianensis (Caiman Lizard) ...



Crocodilurus Amazonicus ...



And others...

=]

[tupinambis]

Well, Rick, I guess if you consider "statement of fact" to be on par with "ill-founded conjecture", then yes, I guess we were both speculating. Gotta remember to go hunting for sea turtles next time I'm in the Ozarks....

[Rick]

Mangue,

Thank you for your input. I have not been to Brasil. I am just confused as to how much distance is between Minas Gerais and Rio de Janeiro? Are they not bordering states?

Here in the US (just as an example) I live in the State of Maine. We do not have timber rattlesnakes. The State of New Hampshire does have timber rattlesnakes. Maine and New Hampshire are bordering states. If someone told me they saw a timber rattlesnake in northeastern Maine (near Canada) I would not believe them. If they told me they saw one in southwestern Maine (near New Hampshire) I would believe them without a doubt. If they told me they saw one in central Maine, I would doubt it, but I wouldn't say it's not possible.

Again, I am not saying that the animal in the video was T.duseni. I agree that it's very unlikely to be one, I am just trying to resolve the lingering notion.

Rick

[Rick]

Well, Rick, I guess if you consider "statement of fact" to be on par with "ill-founded conjecture", then yes, I guess we were both speculating. Gotta remember to go hunting for sea turtles next time I'm in the Ozarks....

I see you are just as ungracious as ever.

Rick