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Thread: Future of tegu breeding?

  1. #1
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    Default Future of tegu breeding?

    Hey everyone,
    I've only been in the game for short time but i was wondering a few things about tegu breeding. It looks like there are a ton of hybrid tegu babies coming onto the scene. At this point it seems as though the hybrid tegu babies are the most expensive. Looking down the line a little bit i am curious;
    1.Which are going to be the most valuable? Pure breed B&W Tegus? Pure bred blue, or red tegus?
    2.Is everyone going to want hybrids?
    3.What are people going to do with the hybrid adults? breed them with the same type of hybrid? Or breed with pure B&W?

    I was thinking down the ways a little bit, if people mix all of the breeds, there are going to be tons of different types of tegus, and then the pure breeds may be more desirable. What do you guys think?

  2. #2
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    Interesting questions. I prefer pure breed. I want the animals to stay as natural as possible. I see no need for hybrids and morphs other than that it's fun and aesthetic for the humans. But then again I guess some species actual breed in the wild too... So I don't know.

    Don't get me wrong, I love different colorations, but I always get the natural looking animals anyway. :P

  3. #3
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    Isdrake has a really good point...some people prefer the natural tegu and like to keep the species separate. Some like hybrids and some prefer one species to another.

    Hybrids are expensive because there aren't as many in the market...but I think that will change as more people breed them. As for what to do with them...some just breed the adults, some breed the offspring to create an F2 generation, and some breed the offspring back to the parents. My opinion is that when breeding, raising, and selling hybrids, it is very important to keep the information with the animal so that future buyers know what they have. In this way, some lines can be kept pure and others will be known hybrids. Big breeders like Bobby Hill will always have a good reputation of breeding a pure line and will have a loyal following of those who want to know what they are buying.

    There is no way to predict what people will want. The corn snake market is a good indicator of that! Many breeders still have last year's babies left over because a particular morph wasn't popular or the slow economy discouraged buyers. I've heard a few of them say they were slowing down their breeding for 2010. Also, the bearded dragon market is full of morphs that I don't particularly care for. In the end, each person has their own idea of what is desirable and the value of anything is what two people agree to pay.

    Because breeding animals really isn't a hugely profitable affair, I'd recommend breeding what you like and not trying to please a fickle market. Otherwise, you can get set up for disappointment. If you are doing what YOU want to do, it will be much more enjoyable.
    Laura R (FL)
    1.0.0 Colombian Tegu
    1.4.0 Argentine B&W Tegu
    1.2.0 Red Tegu
    1.2.0 B/WxRed Tegu
    1.0.0 Green Ameiva (yet another teiid)
    7 other lizards
    1 little gator
    3 FL box turtle
    1 Sulcata tortoise
    16 snakes
    5 fuzzy pets
    4 little frogs
    a bunch of creepy bugs
    and a partridge in a pear tree

  4. #4
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    I am on an English reptile forum and there seems to be a very different cultural approach to this question there. I get the sense that people there prefer the breeding of, say, geckos and bearded dragons to be structured and formalized, like pedigreed dogs.

    IMO, while on the one hand I see the silliness of this, on the other hand, as the reptile market grows, this is a far more responsible husbandry than what we do in the US.

    Currently, anyone takes two animals in any condition, capriciously selects on the basis of one or two superficial traits (or just cuz they happen to have aquired them), with no regard to the native gene pool of origins and no appreciation for the adaptive significance that yielded any trait, promotes an unnatural mating of these two animals who, in the wild, might be adamantly repelled by each other on the basis of competition, and produces offspring that they somewhat randomly name. The person calls themself a breeder, but they are actually just maters.

    There is no formal definition of a "blue" tegu breed, e.g., so anyone can post an ad and sell babies at a premium. The breeder may have a perfectly trustworthy reputation and no intent to decieve, but they themselves probably don't know what they're doing or the origins of their stock. People pull these animals from all over the internet, there are no records or certifications that you have as with pedigree dogs, and you often can't tell from a hatchling how the adult characteristics will be expressed.

    The negative impact on the animals is that, because the source supply of some captive bred species in the US stem from an originally limited gene pool, there may be widespread inbreeding. This results in a disproportionate expression of recessive, disadvantageous genes that would be weeded out in nature or isolated to areas where their expression carried some special advantage.

    I'm not saying that if someone wants a blue-green or gigantic or blind and scaleless tegu that they shouldn't be able to buy one in the free market. But you are kidding yourself if you have much confidence that you get what you are paying for and that the animal is free of "defects" that could limit its survival and quality of life.

    And it's very wrong when people who have not yet mastered the husbandry to maintain healthy, happy animals with all the space and conditions needed, decide to breed two of their prisoners to see if they can make a little money off some unsuspecting pet lovers.

    The different man-made breeds of dogs, cats and farmyard animals resulted from thousands of years and hundreds of thousands of generations of selective breeding by humans in semi-isolated pools all over the planet. The "breeds" of pet reptiles represent a relatively new phenomenon with no rational or consistent selective criteria applied.

    I'm not ranting to organize any change -- our culture is too oriented to "I'm free to do what I want for me" to realistically expect the market to demand or respond to a considered ethic. I just think its a kinda sad reality that we so easily mess with nature without regard to longterm consequences.

  5. #5
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    I reread my post and wanted to make sure that two things were clear...Bobby Hill is a selective breeder who prefers the natural state of tegus and has posted that he does not care for hybridization, inbreeding, or careless breeding.

    Also, the *you* in the post was a collective you and not directed to anyone in particular. I think breeding should come from a passion and desire to improve a line of animals, not to make money.
    Laura R (FL)
    1.0.0 Colombian Tegu
    1.4.0 Argentine B&W Tegu
    1.2.0 Red Tegu
    1.2.0 B/WxRed Tegu
    1.0.0 Green Ameiva (yet another teiid)
    7 other lizards
    1 little gator
    3 FL box turtle
    1 Sulcata tortoise
    16 snakes
    5 fuzzy pets
    4 little frogs
    a bunch of creepy bugs
    and a partridge in a pear tree

  6. #6
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    I am in 100% agreement with HernandosMom.

  7. #7
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    Very good topic.

    I like what HernandosMom has stated as well.
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  8. #8
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    Well, I've seen in Quebec that people are looking for reptile that people don't have and that they are different and very hard to find on the market.
    As for as I know, the most buyed reptile in Quebec are Geckos, beardie, Uro's, Ball python, Carpet python, cornsnake and sometime constrictor boa.
    People are always looking for new ''hybrids'' or different ''morph'' of snake/lizard to make them more precious or unique compare to other keeper. But when you think about it, the only difference they had, is their coloration or pattern. It won't change the animal behavior, intelligence or aggressiveness in captivity if the pattern/size is changed.

    Some ''mod'' has changed. General people are not anymore looking into the biggest snake to get, or the biggest lizard they can found on the market. People in Quebec are looking into a easy to care, cool attitude and as rare as possible animal. So that is why they are going into geckos, beardie and some small snake because they are more breeding and more different pattern.
    Look at retics python as pure example. People are not looking into getting a ''regular'' reticulated python. They are looking into a dwarf, super dwarf, tiger, supertiger or another morph, but they are still retics python. It's the same animal, but only with a different color.

    Now if we take the tegu as the second example. 2-3 years ago, everybody was looking into the regular Argentine Black and White Tegus, and the red tegu as a backup if the B/W weren't available. Now that blue tegus are breed aswell as crossbreed of Red/white, Blue/red, blue/white, etc. People are all wanting a blue Tegu or a ''new'' cross breed tegu instead of the regular black and white tegu. Why? Because they are new and that they are less available compare the the pure Argentine Tegu.

    Third example, all of you guys know how cheap regular and albino burmese python are. You can find one of those big guy between 50-250$. At our reptile farm we have a male albino burmese python. This guy cost more than 2000$!!! Why? Because this guy is a eyeless burmese python, that's right, it doesn't have any eyeball and ocular hole. Does it make sense to pay such a price for an animal that has a big deformity like this? No...it doesn't make sense, but this animal is unique and make him more special because he is different. You can check on some reptile site, you can now buy two-head snake and two-head turtle for a higher price. Is it normal to pay a higher price for an animal that has a deformity like this...no. But people like uniqueness and special animal because getting one of those ''unique animal'' won't make them ''regular'' keeper.

    The funny thing about it, is that for the moment, having a crossbreed or different reptile is not very popular and people are all trying to have one to be different compare to other people. But in a couple of years, when everyone will all have the famous different morph. The pure breed will become the ''rare'' pet to have, everybody will look for a pure breed specimen and breeder will jack up the price of pure breed...
    Last edited by Ben3233; 03-07-2010 at 03:02 AM.
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  9. #9
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    lots of good replies in here. I was just trying to think ahead a little bit. I myself, by no means am in to these animals for money. I love my tegus. But someday i'll probably want one or two more and i was wondering what is going to be out there in the market.

    Of the people that are on here with hybrids, are you planning on breeding them? Maybe just for one batch? I mean i'd hate to see 20 red/blue/white crosses all end up dying without a few of them mating with some other tegus. But what are they going to mate with? Another crossbreed like themself? or just a normal BW?

  10. #10
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    I understand where everyone is coming from. But not everyone is just out for the money. I LOVE Tegus very much and I take very good care of them. As soon as I think there is something wrong with them I even take them to the vet. I don't think no one is sure if there are any hybrids in the wild or not. Unless you get the Tegus from a breeder and keep track of everything you never know if there are Tegus being inbred ( like with the blues or extream giants ).
    Bobby does breed hybrids ( the All American Tegus ).

    Yes, I want to breed my hybrid Tegus one day. But before we do we make sure they are old enough and not try to rush things just to make some money. We don't do it for the money. We make more money in our real job. We do it because we think the hybrids are very beautiful and different and we want to bless other people with what God blessed us with. That's all.
    When the time comes to breed them we also will take the Tegus to the vet to get Xrays done to make sure there is no signe of MBD, get a fecal done and some blood work. When we are going to sell the hatchlings we will have a photo album that comes with the pictures off the grandparents,the parents and where they came from. A picture of the Tegu hatchling and the bith date. We also will include a copy of the paper work from the vet. We dont' want to take a chance and sell sick Tegus. I wouldn't be able to live with my self knowing I didn't do what is right.

    Here are the parents of my blue/red hybrids. The dad is a 100% blue and the mom is a 50% powder blue and 50% red.



    Here is our Schatzi ( the female ). We will be breeding her with Shakespeare later one. He is a All American from Bobby Hill. He is a 25% blue, 25% red and 1/2% extream giant.



    Here is our Spatzi ( the male ). We will be breeding him with Venus. She is the sister from Shakespear.




    Here are the parents from Shakespeare and Venus ( Varnyard stock ).

    This is the mom ( violet )



    This is the dad ( Blizzard )




    Here is Shakespeare.



    Here is Venus.



    Here is another link to one of Bobby's hybrid Tegu that he has ( red/ black and white ).

    http://www.tegutalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=1721
    Last edited by txrepgirl; 03-07-2010 at 10:42 AM.
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