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Thread: EMERGENCY, MBD possibly? please help

  1. #1

    Exclamation EMERGENCY, MBD possibly? please help

    Hello. I have posted several times recently about my little guy. He has seemed completely healthy, just slightly agitated/uncomfortable around me since I got him. He had trouble eating at first, and still hates rodents... but I do the supplement with chicken breast, eggs, and ground turkey (not at the same time or in a specific rotation) 2 times a week like it says to. My tegu has had no twitching problem at any point since I have gotten him. All of a sudden I got home today and he seems to have trouble even moving his body is twitching so bad. Not just his limbs, but his body as well (not his head). He won't eat and he seems scared and physically uncomfortable. I don't feed him in his enclosure or around any mulch (he has a little wooden hide in the corner of the room for eating). Nothing has changed in his enclosure or routine at any point since I have gotten him. What is going on? I called the only emergency vet clinic around and the exotic specialist is unavailable for call in this weekend and they don't know what to do (nice, huh). Any ideas? I am going to try to post a video asap, but all the videos I have taken so far you can't really see it.

  2. #2
    Join Date
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    Okay, first off, how old is the little guy? Did you just get him, and did you get him from a reputable breeder, or was he a rescue? If it IS MBD, then he needs to get some calcium into his system, and ASAP. So you say that he doesn't like rodents... are they too big for him perhaps? If not, something that you can try is cutting the gut or brain cavity open once it's thawed; the smell a lot of times will stimulate their feeding response. Another thing that you can do is go to your local butcher or grocery store and get chicken necks. Cut them up VERY small (as the bone pieces *can* do damage if too big), and feed him those. I talked with a guy about how he turned around his tegu's MDB in less than three weeks be feeding him this a few times a week. If your tegu doesn't go for these things, you can drizzle minced or pureed beef/chicken liver of heart on is and stir it up. I've also heard of mixing it up with raw eggs to interest the little one. If NONE of this works, then I'd recommend lightly dusting whatever food he WILL eat with a calcium supplement every day. After all this, to help him actually absorb all this calcium, he's gonna need proper UVB exposure, and you can't get any more proper than real sunlight. If it's still warm enough outside where you live, then take him outside (in a plastic bin or something if you think there's a chance of him running... just don't use a glass tank; he can cook) for an hour every day if you can.

    Above all this though, get him into the Herp Vet as soon as you're able.

    If someone can correct me on anything that I posted, please do; this information shared is simply what I've gathered by talking with others.
    Last edited by nordica; 09-12-2010 at 06:55 AM. Reason: spelling
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  3. #3
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    This is just general info that I posted to another thread that had similar issues. You need to get calcium into his system, Vit D through supplement and UVB, and make sure the temps are alright.

    Natural sunlight is best. If you can get a mercury vapor bulb, that is second best. If you use a long fluorescent bulb, then it needs to be inside the cage about 6-8" from the basking spot. Not many people recommend the coiled/compact lamps.

    He needs proper temperatures to keep his metabolism up, so the basking temp needs to be 110-115 and the cool side low 80's with a night time drop into the 70's.

    As for diet, the calcium to phosphorous ratio needs to be 1.5 or 2:1. When something is out of whack...diet, UV exposure, vit D, then calcium metabolism is out of whack. Calcium is utilized by the muscle fibers and the nerves for proper muscle contraction. When calcium is low (or high), then the muscles cannot function as they should and that twitching is seen. If the blood levels of calcium are low, then the body must get more calcium for the muscles to function properly (the skeletal muscles and heart muscle), so it turns to the bones for more calcium. Without bloodwork from the vet, we cannot say which component is affecting your tegu. Otherwise, we just sort of recommend everything, but we aren't vets. Ground beef is really the same as ground turkey, as long as they are lean. It's been a while since I've seen the chart, but the ratio is something like 1:33, hugely in the wrong direction. Insects are anywhere from 1:12 to 1:30, unless you gut load them or use some that are naturally higher in calcium and have a proper ratio. That's why it is so important to supplement with a good calcium product that does NOT contain phosphorous. Usually it says so right on the label, and the directions for use will be right on the label, too.

    If he isn't eating, then I would get some chicken stage 1 baby food. Take a tiny baby food jar, and add 1/2 teaspoon of calcium no phosphorous with Vit D. It is based on 1/2 tablespoon of calcium per pound of food. You could even add just a bit more, but it may make the food taste too chalky to be appealing. Then make sure he has good UVB, and see if will improve in a day or two. From there, it is a rebuilding process of proper calcium in the diet and adequate UVB at the right temperature.
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  4. #4

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    I guess my big question was will he be okay until I can get him to the vet on Monday? Thank you very much for the help, I really assume this is what it is. I didn't realize the ratio was that bad on turkey I must have read the nutritional facts incorrectly. I use calcium supplement once a week, as it says on the label but I will redo his diet and see what I can do. He just started eating consistently about 3 weeks ago, and he will not eat rodents no matter what I do. Pinky, furs, hoppers it doesn't matter. I will try the chicken necks though thank you. He is under uvb quite often and I will do my best to get him outdoors but like I say I have had him about 2 months and he is quite feisty still. Also he is about 20" +/- 2" tip to tip. He was a hold back with a nipped tail from Bobby Hill. He said he was born last June, but when I got him he was still only about 15". His structure is sound and he looks fine. Could he possibly be twitching like this from a parasite or impaction? I don't know how it would have happened, but just to make sure. Because from what I hear, he won't make it til Monday with impaction. He is fast asleep and has been, but he didn't burrow all the way down like he normally does. He left his body kind of poking out. He was still twitching when he fell asleep, but it has been a while since he fell asleep and he stopped. I hope he is still alive, I know that sounds bad. But I don't want to disturb him if he is sleeping. I just worry about my babies, I want what is best for them.

  5. #5

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    OMG I just think I found the problem. Chicken has a terrible phosphorous to calcium ratio. I must have read it wrong when planning his diet because I swear I had it worked to a 3:2 ratio which is apparently too low. He needs to get calcium'ed up and asap. Can I put the calcium powder in his water? I can't really find anything about that online and it doesn't have anything about it on the instructions. Is there a good way to flush his system of phosphorous as well? Also can he be over d3'ed? Thanks again guys

  6. #6
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    you cant put in the water, but you can find some liquid Cal online thaat you can mix in his water

    side note - a good rule of thumb is : if the food dont have bones in it add the Cal (i do 18g+/- of powder to 1lb of food... i use a 9g scoop to messure)
    you can do twice a week Cal w/ D3 and Vits once/twice a week.
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  7. #7
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    As for impaction, when was the last time he pooped? Was it a lot/little compared to normal? And I think you're supposed to see something in their excrement if it's parasites, some worms or other internal parasites. External parasites you should be able to see if you look closely though.
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  8. #8
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    One more time, people: If you are using a meat diet as your primary staple, then YOU MUST SUPPLEMENT WITH EVERY MEAL!!! No ifs, ands, or buts. Meat is TERRIBLY unbalanced for proper health. Doesn't matter if it's chicken, turkey, beef, fish, organs, giraffe, elephant or wallaby. At the meat level they are all basically the same and are all nutrient poor and/or unbalanced. Labels mean next to NOTHING, they are general guidelines usually assuming the keeper is already feeding a balanced or near balanced diet.

    waddlecaudle, while nutritional secondary hyperparathyroidism is most likely what is occuring in your situation (what most here are calling MBD) there could be other reasons for your tegu's suffering, so do not become complacent in its treatment, get it to the vet on Monday. In the meantime, there are a few things you can do to help the situation. As has already been suggested, get a good, strong UVB bulb. Most pet shops these days sell some form of liquid calcium/Vit D3 drops (Moondrops is one such thing) that normally I think are junk, but in a situation like this is the most readily available way to get Ca/Vit.D3 in a liquid state and easily into your animal. You may also want to get some electrolytes into your tegu as well, you can use something like Pedialyte from the pharmacy, or Gatorade. Dilute it to 50%. The easiest way to administer these is with a Monoject syringe with a tapering, curved tip (they don't fit hypodermic needles, should be available at a good pharmacy).

    For the long term, though, and to answer some of your questions: you don't need to "flush" phosphorus, it isn't bad, you just need to keep it in proper balance with calcium in order to maintain proper health. Your animal isn't "overdosing" on phosphorus, it's deficient in calcium. You CAN overdose on calcium and vitamin D3, especially the D3. So although you have been deficient at this point, do NOT swing the other way and fall into the typical fallacy trap that most do of "if a little is good, a lot must be better". Keep all levels within reasonable range, don't oversupplement.

  9. #9
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    I'm very sorry to hear about what is going on with your Tegu. I hope he will get better soon. tupinambis gave you some great infos. If you want to you also can get some stage one baby food ( any kind. Chicken, fruit, veggie ) and mix in some calcium powder and see if your Tegu will lick it up. If not I would try to force feed him ( video link below ). I know it sounds gross but what you can do is you can put a medium size rodent ( the calcium in their bones are better on the larger rodents then the smaller ones ) and put it in a blender. Then let him eat/lick it. You also can mix this with the ground turkey. How is he doing today ?

    How to force feed a Tegu :

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  10. #10

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    Hey everyone and thank you for all of the help. Tupinambis I really do appreciate that advice, because all advice that I have had up to that point was to do it once or twice a week. I don't want to use a boneless meat as his staple, but he won't eat anything else. As for an update, he is eating well and seems to be almost back to par. He is out of his hide, basking, and moving around as usual. Scared the crap out of me to see one of my babies like that. I haven't ever heard or seen of it coming along like that. He didn't even twitch a toe, and then all of a sudden he was having body convulsions to the point he could hardly walk. Anyway, like I say I feel like I nearly overdosed him on calcium, including a spray advised by my vet to put on his food and in his water that I finally got Monday. This stuff did wanders as he wouldn't eat but would drink. If you have a problem with your animals calcium at any point and he/she won't eat get this stuff. A question based on this issue. Does anyone know of something I could try to feed my tegu that has natural calcium that he can digest well. Like I say he won't touch rodents thawed or alive and just stares at insects when I wave them in his face. I really don't want to have to supplement him up all the time as its obviously not as tasty and not as natural. Can tegus properly digest and absorb the calcium in chicken eggs?

    Thank you again everyone for all of the help, my tegu and I greatly appreciate it.

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